Saturday, June 9, 2012

Euro 2012 - Day Two

Denmark 1 the Netherlands 0

The Dutch take 28 shots, far too many of which flashed just wide and a few that caught the frame, and lose when Ajax youth product Krohn-Dehli does the only thing several of his former teammates and Eredivisie rivals could not do.

NSC Man of the Match: Michael Krohn-Dehli







Germany 1 Portugal 0


In another match with many more chances than the final score lets on, a classy Gómez header in the late going puts Die Mannschaft in the early Group of Death driver's seat.

NSC Man of the Match: Mesut Özil






- Greg Seltzer

31 comments:

dikranovich said...

if there is a must see game in the group stages at this euros, it has to be hollands next game against germany. the dutch really do have to be kicking on all cylanders, in order to perform at their best and they are known for going from bad to worse, pretty dramatically .

good stuff, and you know germany smells blood. the atmosphere alone at this game will be worth the price of admission. and as a little topper, you get holland portugal in game three. potential stinker of all stinkers.

england v france on monday is not to shabby either.

Greg Seltzer said...

1 - Oranje were not bad yesterday.

2 - Since when exactly are they known for going from bad to worse dramatically?

dikranovich said...

greg, i know you are not trying to say a 1 nil loss in the first game of the group stages is good, unless maybe you are talking about the 88 dutch team. of course the second game this time is against germany, not england.

dont you see a classic game coming in game two greg? instead, you are stuck on some insecurities and truth be told, that is a big part of the history of dutch football. very interesting insight, thank you greg

Greg Seltzer said...

First of all, are you at all aware of how completely insulting and dismissive you come off as at quite close to every possible moment in time? Frankly, if you want to get into some dominant aspersion slinging, you have picked the wrong target. This brother can put a few words together on ya.

Now... I did not say the result wasn't bad. I said THEY were not bad in their performance, which they were not. This is clear reality to anyone being honest. If you would like to debate that Oranje lost because they played poorly, have at it. It would not be the first time you made a complete fool of yourself arguing the most obvious realities.

Finally... insecure? Dude, what color is the sky in your world? I moved away from my home, put my name on my hard work for all to see, and then come in here everyday to share my experiences and views from it for free, all the while dealing with everyone I come across in a straightforward manner. And when I'm done with all that, I go breakdance at 42. Well.

Take your endless personal shots, I dun care. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. You, on the other hand, may wish to prove you can discuss respectfully.

Or, ya know, answer a single wild claim you make when it's questioned respectfully.

Jay Eychaner said...

A-fuckin'-men.

dikranovich said...

greg, are you sure you are not misreading the situation? just to review, i stated that the best game of the euros was coming up, a game which involves the dutch and the germans. you said the dutch were not bad in their loss, i said the dutch are on the ropes and it will be interesting to see how they react.

i dont think anyone is going to ever comfuse the dutch for being overachievers. scold me some more if you think that to be false, but you know, if anything, the dutch have for most of their football history, they have been under achievers.

greg, i was always under the impression that you are a usa fan, first and foremost. when we talk about the dutch, we are trying to relate that to team usa, in the hopes that usa can avoid some of the same pitfalls that foil the orange.

i will stand by my claim, when it comes to football, the dutch have great insecurites, that leads to infighting or something that keeps them down.

isnt it interesting, the two big underachievers in european football have been spain and holland and once they get a little nastiness in their sides, they are in finals of big events.

and greg, i dont care how well you can breakdance, but i would be curious to know what kind of baller you are.

Greg Seltzer said...

No one will confuse a country of 16 million that should half be underwater for winning one Euro and making three World Cup finals, if not also revolutionizing the modern game, as being overachievers? Interesting take.

How many Dutch do you know exactly? If you think the Dutch are insecure, I have a bridge to sell you.

As for getting nasty, the Dutch teams, and some of their true greats in particular, have always had an edge. For instance, Bergkamp once stamped a chest.

I can play a little. I play at least once a week against dudes in their 20's.

dikranovich said...

overachievers are countries like croatia and bulgaria. netherlands have been underachievers, maybe less so then england, but it is hard to say. the dutch have had more talent than england over the years. both countries have underachieved on the world football scene. that is a subjective fact.

Greg Seltzer said...

Since 1974, there have been four teams to reach at least four finals of World Cups and/or Euros: France, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands. In that span, they've reached nine semifinals in these tourneys, often losing to hard luck.

Since 1974, England has been to zero WC and Euro finals, reaching the semis twice.

Both of these things are not like the other.

dikranovich said...

so you mention four teams, three of which have actually won the world cup, and whats the point again?

lets mention when the dutch did not even qualify for the event. after inventing total football, holland failed to even qualify in 1982 or 1986. 90 and 94, they qualified, but even with reigning world footballer of the year, they were plagued by internal issues.

the dutch again did not qualify in 02, but maybe qualifying out of europe is harder, but we dont here italy or germany complaining about qualifying for world cup finals.

with all the talent the dutch possess and have possessed over the years, their record is an underachieving one.

Greg Seltzer said...

Whatever you say, dude. All hail the overachievers Bulgaria!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria_national_football_team#Competition_history

dikranovich said...

between 1974 and 1994 brazil underachieved, but it is hard to blame them, they were wearing three stars on their chest.

dikranovich said...

croatia, this is an overachieving nation. the emerald island, vs the country of a 1000 islands. heck, croatia was not even a country a couple years before they beat holland in 1998. your over here talking about being half underwater and hervatska brings a third the population, coming from war to the dutch and sends them from bad to worse.

usa has been an overachieving nation on the soccer scene. we qualified for the knockrounds without even having a real pro league, thats gotta be pretty unheard of. we have been to the knockoutround two of three cups.

but the bar is being raised for the usa and similar results in the future will not be looked at as over achieving.

Greg Seltzer said...

You do realize there's only one champion per tournament, right? And that the top teams are not always at their maximum quality? And that sometimes various misfortunes occur to teams? There are not many teams in the world that can match the Dutch record since 1974 and they are all much larger in population.

In 1978, Brazil finished third to host Argentina and Oranje. If that's underachieving, I'm a Muppet.

Greg Seltzer said...

Yes... when Croatia's starters beat the Netherlands' back-ups in a third place game they didn't care about.

dikranovich said...

its always telling who tries in those third place games, isnt it?

Greg Seltzer said...

No. It's not.

dikranovich said...

packman william, can you believe that you actually considered that maybe greg was using my screen name as his alter ego? you have to be having a little bit of a laugh thinking about that now.

dikranovich said...

the dutch are fragile, and that is no secret.

Greg Seltzer said...

I'm telling you flat out right here, if you start claiming that you are my altar ego, you will be banned.

Period. End of story. I'm not playing. Do not try me. Don't even start.

Misael Garcia said...

Ban him already.!!!

Will Parchman said...

Dude, did you just call me "Packman William?" I don't even know what that means.

dikranovich said...

the dutch almost won the last world cup, and the day they win one, that will be the day that they raise their status. until then, they carry a label with them. isnt it interesting to anyone else that the inventors of total football were relegated to playing anti football against spain in 2010 finals. that, in and of itself should be understood, and dissected.

when a team such as ajax has won three euro cups in a row, then there is an expectation that the national team will be very strong. so the dutch set a high standard for themselves and thats a good thing, but they just have not lived up to the early success, and maybe that is some sort of cautionary tale.

Greg Seltzer said...

You simply are talking out of your rear.

1 - They were not "relegated" to anything and it has been discussed/dissected ad nauseum. At some point, you should become aware that you are not exactly in the epicenter of Dutch discussion - so perhaps sometimes it's going on without your knowing?

2 - Why have the Dutch "struggled to emulate their early success" since the 70's? Erm, how about money? Relative population size? Again, there's only one champion per tourney, so obviously your standards for "success" are overblown?

Really, though, none of this debate matters, because you're only trying to aggravate. It would be delightful for everyone if you'd dial it back (or at least come bearing factual realities as points while behaving respectfully).

dikranovich said...

greg, im trying to talk soccer, you are over there taking pot shots. no pun intended.

Greg Seltzer said...

Sigh. Your soccer points get answers (which you ignore) and you continue to play as clever. This is the last time I'm going to ask to speak about topics and not in adversarial, insinuating tones about the other people participating - most of all me. I really don't think that's too much to ask.

dikranovich said...

is that a one way street, or will you abide by not being snide as well? it is your blog, so house rules.

Greg Seltzer said...

If no one is snide with me, I won't be snide. Did you see me start being snide with anyone? No.

Just be cool.

dikranovich said...

what the heck is it with american soccer journalist feeling as if they are beyond reproach? it is flat out strange. im being honest and true here. it is not just you greg, but pretty much everybody.

Greg Seltzer said...

Oh, see, I wasn't aware that calling someone stupid, publicly declaring them a liar and claiming them an illegitimate professional using cherry picks and misrepresentations falls under the umbrella of reproach.

My bad.

dikranovich said...

you might have to put that in context greg. just saying it, does not make it true. for the record, ajax are affiliated with three clubs world wide, one is in beijing, another is in cape town and the third, yep, you guessed it, its the tiny little amsterdam suburban team of almere city