Wednesday, October 2, 2013

As promised....

Remember yesterday's small mention of a 'forthcoming' column about the proper way to experiment with the USMNT's ever-troublesome left back spot? It has now arrived.

Go ahead, don't be shy; I readily accept all accusations of evil super genius-ery.




- Greg Seltzer

73 comments:

Owen Summers said...

I actually do like the idea of Jones being up for spot duty at LB. I still want to see what Lichaj can do at the international level though.

Johnson scares me much less than Beasley at LB, but taking him out of the attack hurts so much.

I'd be satisfied going to the World Cup with one bonafide starter and using guys like Cameron, Johnson, and perhaps Jones as emergency options. (And probably another RB that can play on the left if necessary.)

Tony M said...

Why do I feel like this is inching toward a 3-5-2? I feel like both of those guys would range around and that would be the de facto formation.

Maybe that's not a horrible idea: a three man back line with Jones and Cameron in front of it, a three man attacking line of FJ - Bradley - Donovan and Jozy and Clint as forwards?

Greg Seltzer said...

Me inching toward a 3-5-2? Not a chance in hell. You should know better, Tony!

Desert Rat said...

I actually kind of like the idea of Jones. He's certainly athletic enough for the role, and it would unclog the whole central midfield.

In any case, I think it's hard to believe that Beasley will hold up at Left Back against World Cup competition. He's been adequate enough for CONCACAF, but not exactly world class. I'd honestly like to see him at his more usual LM role as a supersub.

WonderKin said...

I like it.

What about right back?

Greg Seltzer said...

Seems to me we have plenty of right backs to choose from, even with 'Dolo out for now.

Jay said...

Greg, I give you credit for giving in. Even as an academic exercise, I can see that this is difficult for you.

That said: no, no, no, no, no. God, no. The last thing I want is an overzealous Jones or a mistiming Edu trying to tackle an attacker on the edge of the box. There are absolutely no other USMNT scenarios more red card prone than this. I am literally cringing right now. Actually literally, not this hyperbolic internet shit: actual literal cringing.

Greg Seltzer said...

Waaaait a minute... Jones and Edu - who, ya know, make lots of tackles for a living - are bigger disaster threats than Beasley? And they wouldn't already need to make tackles near the edge of the area as defensive-minded midfielders?

Perhaps there's another reason you've cringed. Did you eat coconut or see Chris Brown in a Battle Of The year trailer?

Tony M said...

Madness. I know. But to quote Miller's Crossing "Just speculating on a hypothesis"

Jay said...

At what point have I ever advocated for Beasley at LB? I think he's a pesky defender at best, but more easily defined as a skinny runt who can't man up a defender while also getting caught up field too often. He's a liability, yes, but he isn't a red card threat.

Jones is a hot head. We all know that. I can easily imagine him blowing steam out of his ears as Ribery blows past him for the 12th time on the night, sticking out a leg and throwing ol' Franck to the ground just inside the box and getting himself carded for good measure. We've seen it before, and we've seen it repeatedly.

I can easily see Edu doing the same thing -- not out of frustration, but because he can't keep up with the pace of the game. He gets burned on one side, burned on the next, and all of a sudden it's a misplaced foot and a winger takes a convenient tumble. Edu can play the role of hard tackling enforcer in the middle, where he can body up an attacker and give his defenders time to get in place. As a one-on-one defender on the wing? Where he's expected to contain the forward-most attacker? No way. He can't keep his cool in those scenarios.

Jay said...

*man up an attacker

John said...

Jones & Edu should only be considered at the midfield and that's it.

heythisisrobbie said...

Glad to see you come mover to the dark side, Greg.

I'd be happy to see JJ at LB, so long as Beckerman wasn't taking his place in midfield. See Jay's cringing description above.

Jolazo said...

When have Edu and Jones seen spot duty at left back? Obviously not with the national team, but I don't recall Edu ever filling in at left back. I think he made a couple of appearances at right back for Rangers, but I don't remember any at left back. What about Jones?

Edu's left foot scares the bejesus out of me. Jones has an adequate left foot, but I don't think he has the positional discipline to play as a left back.

Bryan said...

While I'm not quite on the Lichaj bandwagon (I'm not sure how the Championship has started to rub elbows in these parts with the narrative in that the Premier League is the greatest league of all time and therefore, doing well there means automatic international success), I appreciate your reasoning in this column, Greg. Your point on Eddie Lewis vs Czech Republic in 06 are very, very valid, and a good reminder not to put an offensive left-sider back there.

Paul Poenicke said...

Positive: not the nuttiest idea I have ever seen posted on this site--pretty decent suggestion to resolve a troublesome area. Negative: it has a lot of competition in the "nuttiest idea ever posted to NSC" category.

I agree that Jones can act rashly, and although he is not nearly the hothead some claim, his random acts of rashness could lead to more cringe-inducing free kicks on the edge of the box. I think Edu's athletic ability could be useful on the left, as could Jermaine's crosses, which tend to be side-footed and, thus, naturally arc inwards. In short,these are options I think Klinsi should try.

Greg, where did you grab that "Jolt Cola" reference from? Is this one of those "you know you're old when" or "you're not in the grip of the Anglo-dominated world anymore" references? (I guess this makes me an oldster for even remembering Jolt.)

Greg Seltzer said...

@ Jolazo:

No, not with the Nats - it says 'club cameos' above. The last time each of them filled in there temporarily was 2-3 seasons back. Edu was at Rangers then. With Jones, he even started a few games there for Eintracht many moons back. If I recall correctly, he has never started there for Schalke, only switching over a few times for cover. I was going to go research nerd and find some exact dates, but that would take an eon and I do have some semblance of a life. Regardless, it happened, I'm not remembering a dream or something.

As for Edu and bejesus scaring, the guy is left-footed. As for Jones, I think everyone likes to pretend he's a mini-Kaiju, but it's not quite so bad... always.



@ Bryan: Lichaj would hardly be the first C'ship player given considerable minutes with the Nats. Though play there is a bit caveman-ish, it's also fast as hell - always good practice for top level games because it teaches quick thinking and reactions.


@ Paul: Yeah, sometimes I may seem nutty, but you'd be surprised how often the US boss eventually comes around my way on things. Cameron as DM, anyone? :D

Jolt Cola? Just came to me, I guess. And yes, you can still find it in the Netherlands and a few other European countries.


dikranovich said...

you know, based on coach klinsmanns tactics, graham zusi would make a much better right back than either of these guys would make a left back, at least in a four man back line. three man back line, and jones or edu could adapt, but not as wingbacks in the coach klinsmann system.

greg, some of your stuff is really getting a little left of la la land, and that puts it out in the deep blue sea, with the fishy. Hamachi anyone!!!

maybe we could get a player like chris klute a shot before some of these outside the box ideas.

Greg Seltzer said...

"you know, based on coach klinsmanns tactics, graham zusi would make a much better right back than either of these guys would make a left back, at least in a four man back line."


Is there where you say he tracks back well, so that means he could play as a defender?



"three man back line, and jones or edu could adapt, but not as wingbacks in the coach klinsmann system."


Ah. So they could not cover at left back, but could play a much more dangerous position switch well. Gotcha.



"greg, some of your stuff is really getting a little left of la la land"


That's funny, didn't you have the same reaction to the suggestion Cameron was best used playing DM behind Bradley? Or that the problem with Altidore not scoring for the US was how the team played around him? Or that Johnson was better up the wing? Or...



"maybe we could get a player like chris klute a shot before some of these outside the box ideas."


I never said Klute couldn't get a look, but with 24 whole games of MLS experience, I'm not assuming he can be ready for a World Cup by next summer.

And I never said either of these guys should be the left back starter or even that they should definitely be moved there. I did say IF we insist on continuing with left back experimentation, these are the two that might actually work at a World Cup level, unlike all the lefties and wingers (which almost certainly won't).

Jolazo said...

Wait, Edu is left-footed?

Greg Seltzer said...

Yessir.

Jolazo said...

Why does he never use it? Is he left-footed in the same way that Fabian is right-footed?

Greg Seltzer said...

I don't understand the question. Go back and look at Edu's 3-4 long range goals for Rangers.

Jolazo said...

In the rare instances when Edu tries to play an incisive pass with the national team, it's always with his right foot. I know he had a couple long range efforts with his left at Rangers, but he never uses his left foot to hit long balls or balls over the top with the national team. That's why I was surprised that he is left-footed.

Greg Seltzer said...

Hmm. You remember every pass he's hit over 45 caps? :D

Jolazo said...

Obviously not, but the ones of recent memory have come with his right foot. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just figured he was right-footed.

Greg Seltzer said...

I didn't think you were, was just making a joke. But I would certainly not say he's a guy who leans to his natural foot heavily. Nor does Jones, for that matter.

WonderKin said...

Right back is a bigger problem. Although, Cameron seems to be getting better, but he still has games where his crosses are erratic at best. And if he plays RB he can't play DM.

WonderKin said...

I'm curious to hear what has Klinnsman come around on?

He seems to have given up on a true 4-3-3 for this qualifying cycle... and Jose Torres.... what else?

Greg Seltzer said...

Well, I don't want Cameron playing right back, so maybe you're not addressing that to me.

But, sorry, I cannot even begin to agree right back is a more troubled spot. We literally have a half dozen guys capable of solidly handling the job when fit.

dikranovich said...

according to his bio at soccerway.com, Maurice Edu is right footed, just so happens that for f Johnson, they have him down as both footed.

Jolazo said...

FWIW, Transfermrkt has Edu as right-footed too.

Greg Seltzer said...

Soccerway also has Guzan as a righty, and we all know beyond any doubt that's not true.

Johnson is two-footed, but he's still a natural righty.

In any event, these sites with every player in the world listed are going to have some mistakes.

brian said...

what does fifa 14 list them, L or R footed...that will tell us the REAL truth

Greg Seltzer said...

Ha! Good one. They have him listed as a righty with a strong "weak foot" rating... and as having 66 for speed.

So much for that idea.

Greg Seltzer said...

Let me just clarify one key thing here: I am not advocating that Jones or Edu be the starter or even that they would work there for sure. I'm certainly not advocating we monkey around by pulling players we'd desire at another position to play left back.

What I'm saying is that *IF* we must keep experimenting, these are the two guys from other positions *most likely* to be able to hold their own at the position at a level we would appreciate if suddenly needed in a World Cup setting because of a wingback crisis. Hell, playing Jones at left back might even be considered an offensive move, as aggressive as he can be going forward.

dikranovich said...

greg, you float this idea out there and then place some label like evil brilliance, or something, which im sure was tongue and cheek, then you want to be dismissive of the fact that FJ is playing left back in the bundas league against b munich which is pretty much better than any team we will face next summer.

I don't know, to me this is a bunch of shennaningans.

and there is really no talking about the USA national team, because these are YOUR ideas you are floating, so in essence, there is nothing to debate.

there is plenty to debunk though!!!

Greg Seltzer said...

Johnson has played LB twice against Bayern. Neither outing was good. Of course, as usual, you skip right around the fact that I also happen have him starting on left wing. He's worth more to me there. Johnson agrees with me (or, technically, me with him). Lately, it seems Klinsi agrees with me.

But, yes, it is my opinion. Not sure what else you'd be browsing for here.

dikranovich said...

The truth

Greg Seltzer said...

Coming from you, that's rich. Like confited crème brûlée mac n' cheese with fudge sauce and deep fried pork belly.

Jay said...

I'd eat that. Mmm.

Greg Seltzer said...

I'd lie down in it and have a nap.

John said...

@Jay: I just threw up a little in my mouth.

WonderKin said...

Really, the only person who has actually posted good games at either fullback position vs. champions league level competition recently, is Geoff Cameron... I don't think anybody wants to see him playing fullback. We want to see him as a 6.

We don't really have any proven, true fullbacks healthy or in good form right now. We are going to have to experiment and take chances and make the best of what we have. I seem to recall everyone freaking out after we lost the first game of the Hex. My response was "calm down, we are going to be ok."

We can get away with smart, ball passing, players like DMB at LB.
We are not going to have to play a Ribery, or a Ronaldo every game.

Who took us out of the last world cup? Ghana. Not Germany, not France, not Ronaldo, not Ribery.

We exited the last world cup when Ghana punted the ball all the way down the field right between Demerit, and Bocanegra. The first goal came off of a terrible give away by Ricardo Clark to Boateng who made Demerit look like a little kid and scored a world class goal from 25 yards out.

The only position that we are presently worse off from that last cycles squad is right back. Dolo was and hopefully still is the man, and we probably won't replace a guy like him any time soon.... however, we have made significant upgrades/maturity at center back, defensive midfield, and up top (robbie findley anyone?). We had chances vs. Ghana, but we couldn't finish.

We are just as athletic as we ever have been. In fact we are probably bigger and faster. BUT we actually have guys at DM, and CB that can pass under pressure. Edu cannot pass at all, though he is athletic. I actually really like the idea of at least experimenting with Jones at FB. Klinsmann clearly likes smarter players who can pass, and are more technical with the ball.

We are going to have some weak spots, but we are already better than we were last cycle, so chill out. DMB will be fine. Yeah, if he has to play against Ribery he might need help, but so will the other FB, because we are playing against France. And if we start beating countries like France in the World Cup, then we might actually win the whole thing, and I think we all know THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. So chill out, and stop saying we have to be able to defend Ribery... Because we don't, and if some how we do, then look out Brazil! We had to be better than Algeria and Slovenia to get out of group play in South Africa. Similar logic applies this go around.

dikranovich said...

do you know why I think we are going to see a 3-5-2?

for one thing, it is a formation made for the USA. it is also a formation that was used during our most successful run at any world cup, ever, to date.

besler, goodson, and Cameron. that is a bold group, and you could switch in gonzalez for goodson, or maybe even brooks.

besler, brooks, and Cameron, I know that has some mouths salivating.

the 3-5-2 has two dee mids and they could be a 6 and an 8 or a 6 and a 6, but it would not be prudent to have two 8s in a 3-5-2.

junior could play further back, or he could play the attacking mid role.

deuce will be able to move to a more natural striker role and partner with jozy.

Donovan and fj can play wide and f. Johnson is pretty much a fullback anyway.

this is a good formation for edu to thrive in as the main destroyer.

youd think that in theory, jones, edu, and Bradley forming a midfield triangle should be able to dominate.

when you think back to that Ghana games, 4 or 8 years ago, they controlled the central midfield battle.

John said...

@WonderKin: Chandler recently had a good game against last season's Champions League runner-up Borussia Dortmund. He has also done really well defending Ribery since he made his Bundesliga debut back in early 2011.

Greg Seltzer said...

"We don't really have any proven, true fullbacks healthy or in good form right now."


Right now is not the time. The time is nine months from now.



"I seem to recall everyone freaking out after we lost the first game of the Hex. My response was "calm down, we are going to be ok."

Ahem, not everyone. I was saying the same thing.


"We can get away with smart, ball passing, players like DMB at LB.
We are not going to have to play a Ribery, or a Ronaldo every game."


I think you are fooling yourself. No, they won;t every game... but they will all be a damn sight better than what he faced against CONCACAF opponents in WCQ.



"Who took us out of the last world cup? Ghana. Not Germany, not France, not Ronaldo, not Ribery."


Do you imagine somehow that Ghana isn't a very excellent team or that they don't have scary attackers?



"We exited the last world cup when Ghana punted the ball all the way down the field right between Demerit, and Bocanegra. The first goal came off of a terrible give away by Ricardo Clark to Boateng who made Demerit look like a little kid and scored a world class goal from 25 yards out."


So what you're saying is the players who should not have been in the line-up made defensive errors? Isn't that what I'm against now?


"We are going to have some weak spots, but we are already better than we were last cycle, so chill out."

This is not in my job description.


"DMB will be fine. Yeah, if he has to play against Ribery he might need help, but so will the other FB, because we are playing against France. And if we start beating countries like France in the World Cup, then we might actually win the whole thing, and I think we all know THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. So chill out, and stop saying we have to be able to defend Ribery... Because we don't, and if some how we do, then look out Brazil!"


Ribery is but one example, dude. I gave two others, I could give 10 more in a blink. And it's not just about one guy opposite his position, we know this.

DMB is in no way a World Cup-caliber defender at left back. He's had numerous costly errors just in CONCACAF play. And, as I say 1000 times, I want him able to do what he does best for us. It ain't playing left back.



"We had to be better than Algeria and Slovenia to get out of group play in South Africa. Similar logic applies this go around."


Oh, you have the group draw already. Great, could you share it with us here?

timo said...

@dikranovich: You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! We live in a world that has goals, and those goals need to be guarded by men with defensive skills. Who's gonna do it? You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't like to talk about at parties, you want Mo on that backline. You need Mo on that backline.
Greg has neither the time nor the inclination to explain himself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very blog he provides, and then questions the manner in which he provides it!

Greg Seltzer said...

Best. Comment. Ever.

Call the Oscars.

Cam said...

why is Tim Ream not an option? he is actually left-footed.

WonderKin said...

My point is that the USMNT is significantly better now than it was during the 2010 world cup. So simple logic says we should perform the same or better. Furthermore, don't play SLOW old guys because they are "reliable", because your used to seeing them there, and it makes you feel better. Don't play people that aren't smart or technical on the ball.

Is simple logic always so simple? No. Could we get an unlucky draw? Sure.

But,

Chances are though that it is more likely that we over think the crap out of everything. Chances are that we will get grouped with a seeded team, and two teams we are better than.
But, there is no doomsday scenario at any 1 position. Even LB.

dikranovich said...

cam, tim ream plays on a team that is in the cellar of the second division in England. he is also slow. I mean, not fast.

it would be an unjustice for ream to be called in ahead of lichaj, for either wingback spot.

dikranovich said...

there is something very touching about watching Ian Holloway singing the Liverpool theme song.

just so happens Liverpool are in a 3-5-2, maybe more of a 3-4-3

Greg Seltzer said...

@ Cam:

"why is Tim Ream not an option?"


He very well could be later, but him performing well is a recent thing. I have my eye on him.




@ WonderKin:

"My point is that the USMNT is significantly better now than it was during the 2010 world cup."


Hmm. I think you're overstating a small overall advantage.



"Furthermore, don't play SLOW old guys because they are "reliable", because your used to seeing them there, and it makes you feel better."


What gives you the idea this is my mindset? I'm confused.






"Don't play people that aren't smart or technical on the ball."


See above.




"Chances are though that it is more likely that we over think the crap out of everything."


And again.



"Chances are that we will get grouped with a seeded team, and two teams we are better than."


How do you figure that?



"But, there is no doomsday scenario at any 1 position. Even LB."


There is if we run someone there who can't defend at that position at that level. It will be exposed. Sharply.



dikranovich said...

lets just work on the comment regarding being in a group with a seeded team and two teams that we are better than. greg, your response is how do you figure, and I guess id like to know mathematically, how you figure otherwise?

Greg Seltzer said...

I don't figure one way or the other, dude. We don't even know who's making it in or how FIFA will decide to seed yet. So I was baffled as to how one could arrive at such a conclusion.

WonderKin said...

Slow old people:

You've stuck by Goodson. Which by himself I can see as an emergency backup, but in your entry "Lefty Town" you also listed Carlos Bocanegra and in your entry "Welcome to "How Fast Can You Run Away From This Post?"!!!" you listed Jonathan Spector. Maybe, you've changed your mind since, but those guys are slow and old. Too old and too slow. You can gain experience and learn, but you can't teach speed.

Beasely is a better leftback than Evans is a rightback. He will add to the attack at any level of play, he defends well in CONCACAF, and will be adequate IF he has to play LB in the World Cup...Unless you give Jonathan Bornstein that much credit?

And what are all these mistakes he's making? Maybe 1 or 2 significant ones all summer long? Same could be said of any player on the roster. He takes risks and defends aggressively because he knows he is faster and can recover. I wouldn't consider that a mistake as much as a calculated risk, and rightly so.

dikranovich said...

we know brasil is the first seed. argentina, Italy, Germany round out the big four and are locks as one seeds. so is spain. that's five greg, that we know for certain.

I thought id heard somewhere that belgique and Colombia could not be one seeds. im not sure if that is true or not.

Belgium is pretty much a lock to qualify, but Croatia, Greece, and Portugal are not.

at worst, it looks like USA have a 50/50 chance of being grouped with two stronger teams, but best case scenario could be that USA are almost assured of being the second strongest team in any group.

dikranovich said...

with the world cup being in south American, id prefer to be grouped with Belgium over Colombia.

WonderKin said...

* Spector is too slow, but not old.

Greg Seltzer said...

"You've stuck by Goodson. Which by himself I can see as an emergency backup"


I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Clarence Goodson has easily been the best US center back over the the last 6 months... and 12... and perhaps even 18. And aside from being good on the ball, he is also by far the single most deadly attack set piece weapon we have at this time. In that one regard, Goodson *is* world class. And in a short tourney, this can be huge.

So, tell me, what are you missing here?



"but in your entry "Lefty Town" you also listed Carlos Bocanegra"


And as I mentioned, Klinsi already said he would have been on the Gold Cup team if not in the act of switching clubs. I'm not sure how this is even controversial, especially considering his good start when fit at Chivas USA.

Of course, he's also at our [sarcasm]stunningly deep[/sarcasm] left center back slot, which can't hurt.


"and in your entry "Welcome to "How Fast Can You Run Away From This Post?"!!!" you listed Jonathan Spector"


On what planet is Spector old? And again, I think "slow" is being subbed in for "not blindingly fast" - it's silly.

It's like Gonzo/'Dolo/Parkhurst/Evans or whomever you prefer is some sort of speed demon.


"Beasely is a better leftback than Evans is a rightback.

He will add to the attack at any level of play,

he defends well in CONCACAF,

and will be adequate IF he has to play LB in the World Cup

Unless you give Jonathan Bornstein that much credit?"

1 - Defensively? Not from what I've seen.

2 - From left back? Not likely. And I can say this because there have been games against CONCACAF teams where he added little to attack from left back.

As a winger? No doubt. It's what he does best, disrupt back lines.

3 - Move to strike as irrelevant. And exaggerated.

4 - I think you're dreaming.

5 - Is there something wrong with truthfully giving Bornstein credit for two solid World Cup performances out of two? That's the reality. It happened.

Let's not pretend I'm talking nonsense or some huge Bornstein cheerleader. I'm just stating the obvious/quite widely agreed, if begrudgingly so. Come to the flock, find your closure.



"And what are all these mistakes he's making? Maybe 1 or 2 significant ones all summer long?"


Back post defending several times. PK foul. Other danger free kicks given. Caught up. Near viral video comedy own goal. Are you serious?

One or two... no, I just had one or two cupcakes. He's had more errors, I didn't think it was some secret.





"Same could be said of any player on the roster."

Okay, cool. Please list Goodson's fatal summer sins, if it's no trouble.





"He takes risks and defends aggressively because he knows he is faster and can recover."


Ha! Do you know when we like to say a "defender" has good recovery? When they get beat a lot all the way at midfield. When they get beat a lot heading toward the area or along the touchline. Yeah.

"Calculated risk" - the first mantra of a World Cup defender since the dawn of time. :/

WonderKin said...

Your saying Steve Cherundolo isn't or at least wasn't fast, or that spector is of similar speed? You sir, are crazy. I never championed Brad Evans... you did. Same goes for Parkhurst. I'm praying for Chandler or Dolo to comeback. Parkhurst can be a shaky 3rd choice. Im ok with that.

Goodson has never given a pk away? World class defenders don't give away PKs? I must be missing something. If he did it frequently fine. He does not do it frequently. Teams are going to get there fouls around the box if they have attackers worth a crap. That goes for every team and every defender in the world. PKs happen once in a great while, even to Goodson.

So your saying Goodson is better on set pieces than Eddie Johnson? Or that we should select CBs based on set piece ability even if they are statuesque? If Goodson could move well he would be a elite CB on the world level... but he can't... so he plays for San Jose.

Spector is WAY TOO SLOW to play left back. AND we have been getting width on the left from LB. Saying DMB won't add to the attack from LB is not a real argument. I simply don't accept it. NO!

A "near own goal"? What exactly is that? Almost only counts in hand grenades and horsehoes... your reaching. Defenders clear balls through the backline "near" the goal all the time. It always makes fans nervous, but it breaks up the attack, and that is the defenders job... sorry to hear it makes you nervous. What were these berrors? are you talking set pieces? We can hide our three short guys on set pieces.

WonderKin said...

* what were these backpost errors?

Greg Seltzer said...

"Your saying Steve Cherundolo isn't or at least wasn't fast, or that spector is of similar speed?"


Cherundolo has never been terribly fast, and he sure isn't now.




"You sir, are crazy."

I fail to see what that has to do with anything.




"I never championed Brad Evans... you did."

Okay, now you're just making shit up.



"Parkhurst can be a shaky 3rd choice. Im ok with that."


Waaaaait a minute. Beasley is a sound defender, but Parkhurst is shaky??? I'm starting to get a real dikranovich vibe, dude.




"Goodson has never given a pk away? World class defenders don't give away PKs? I must be missing something."

Well, you certainly aren't missing the ability to move the goalposts several times in rapid succession.



"If he did it frequently fine. He does not do it frequently."

Define "frequently" please.



"Teams are going to get there fouls around the box if they have attackers worth a crap. That goes for every team and every defender in the world."

Oh dear lord.




"PKs happen once in a great while, even to Goodson."

Great. So name the last one he gave up in a US shirt.




"So your saying Goodson is better on set pieces than Eddie Johnson?"

It's not even close. Not even sure how you could imagine it was.


"Or that we should select CBs based on set piece ability even if they are statuesque?"

If you are going to alter every point I make, why am I bothering? I said something he adds, after talking about the rest. Which you have yet to address.



"Saying DMB won't add to the attack from LB is not a real argument. I simply don't accept it. NO!"

Yes, fair point. If you simply can't accept it, then it ceases to be. Well played.



"A "near own goal"? What exactly is that?"

Aaaaaaand now, I'm done. If you cannot so much as concede this glaringly obvious thing that just recently happened and EVERYONE remembers, I'm out. I don't have time in life to discuss custom realities with the owners.

WonderKin said...

" he is also by far the single most deadly attack set piece weapon we have at this time" - Greg Seltzer on Clarence Goodson

That's how I think you said he is better than Eddie Johnson.

Oh now we have to clarify whether commits PK mistakes in a US shirt or not? He has cost his teams a PK. Im not even going to do the research. I know he has, because he is a defender and it happens. He probably has an own goal to his name too... again no research necessary it's just inevitable at some point. Beasely has yet to score an own goal even if one time he almost scored one...

Steve Cherundolo is not fast? If he has lost a step or two I don't know. Maybe his career is over? I hope not. But he was very fast... Gareth Bale fast? No. But probaly the 3rd or fourth fastest guy on the team last world cup cycle. On a team known for speed on the counter attack.

Greg Seltzer said...

"That's how I think you said he is better than Eddie Johnson."

I don't understand the confusion. I said that, then I also said it's not even close comparing him to EJ. Goodson is easily more dangerous on corners than any of our strikers.



"Oh now we have to clarify whether commits PK mistakes in a US shirt or not? He has cost his teams a PK. Im not even going to do the research. I know he has, because he is a defender and it happens. He probably has an own goal to his name too... again no research necessary it's just inevitable at some point."


O_O

The time frame in issue was this summer, but I generously left it open for you to find the last one of any time. Either way, I'm really not sure how you expect anyone to take this line of debate.



"But probaly the 3rd or fourth fastest guy on the team last world cup cycle."

Wow. That's just not true. I'm not even sure he was the fourth fastest *wingback* in that cycle.

John said...

@Cam: Ream just isn't very good especially on defense, he got beat quite a few times last season that led to him getting benched for a while. He started this season well but I think he's pretty far down JK's depth chart, even though he recently got called up for the Bosnia game to warm the bench.

WonderKin said...

Did you see Sakho's "near own goal" this weekend? "Nearly" identical to DMB. I'm guessing he will stay a starter.

WonderKin said...

at 5:15 http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-crystal-palace-oct05-235336

John said...

@WonderKin: Sakho's "near own goal" looks a lot worse.

Greg Seltzer said...

Yeah, it does. Except for the fact that it wasn't close to going on goal. And the keeper jumped in his way there. Any way you slice it, I'm not concerned about what Liverpool or Liverpool players do.

John said...

@Greg Seltzer: Except when Marc Pelosi makes the first team haha.

Greg Seltzer said...

Touché.