Sunday, June 1, 2014

Your line-up vs. Turkey

Much like John McClane in every Die Hard movie, I am getting a bad feeling about this diamond midfield. I sense another rant coming...








- Greg Seltzer

45 comments:

dikranovich said...

San Franciscans. Take notice of this crowd!!!

jon said...

Candlestick Park vs Red Bull Arena.
Azerbaijan vs Turkey.
Tuesday vs Sunday.
All apples to apples comparisons, right Dikran?

dikranovich said...

Yeah, USA allow turkey to put one off the post, and turkey has spent some time in the USA box, but all in all, USA is on top of turkey and the high pressure is forcing turnovers. It could be 2 nil except Jozy got caught pushing off.

Jones is tough as nails and this team is showing some real personality. Zusi makes things happen, fj makes things happen. Turkey needs to be careful, because they push forward and they will get stung on the counter.

dikranovich said...

As much as I hate the choice he made, I'm hurting for g Rossi today. And may he never speak in a fake Italian accent in English ever again.

dikranovich said...

Greg, might be right one of these days, just not today. Bradley MOM

Greg Seltzer said...

Precisely what am I not right about today? The diamond had great troubles against Turkey B. Do the math, dude.

justinwkoehn said...

Diamond is just for Ghana vs their strong midfield. I doubt we'll see it vs Portugal and Germany.

As much as JK wants Bradley attacking, and as much as JK has been experimenting, I wonder why we haven't seen a Jones/Becks DM combo with Bradley as a CAM.

Greg Seltzer said...

How does a diamond help against a strong midfield? It leaves two guys going against three.

justinwkoehn said...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1375589-15-tactical-formations-and-what-theyre-good-for/page/6

Greg Seltzer said...

Ha! Last time I checked Pirlo did not make the US roster. Either way, there is not enough protection for a back line still getting acquainted, not enough possession support from the 6 hole.

justinwkoehn said...

We will definitely need to absorb more pressure in the group. With Jozy's finishing, I'm not confident in the counter game either. He's decent with link-up play and creating chances for others, but if its Jozy who gets the final pass, I'm worried.

dikranovich said...

I think what just(in) is trying to say is that we have gone with a four man midfield against a five man midfield for Ghana in the last two world cups, and with improvement in our midfield, third time could be a charm.

Greg, regarding what you're not right about today, one, you don't have any rants about a diamond midfield. It was a lack of familiarity on the back line that gave us the most trouble today, that and some very nice diagonal long balls from turkey.

Oh, sorry, that was one and two, the diamond can work, and Greg's rants can't.

Let's talk more about the lack of tactical nuance which some people seem to think is missing from the repertoire of our national team coach .... That's always good for some laughs...

Tony M said...

The last person I met who thought Klinsmann had tactical acumen also thought that the moon landing was staged.

Bernardinho said...

Absolutely NONE of us can argue that this isn't the tallest U.S. team ever. Let's all chime in now and talk about how much we all agree about that.

dikranovich said...

No, we don't need to talk about that because now, we have Greg's ratings for the game. I love how he describes the game in his opening salvo. He says the US played slightly better against a marginally better opponent.

Get this, our little buddy describes a team that has been in the semi finals of two major tournaments in the past twelve years as just marginally better than Azerbaijan.

Oh well.....

Tony M said...

Greg, thought your player ratings were pretty much on the mark. My only quibble was I might have gone a half point lower on Davis and Zuzi, particularly Davis who disappeared when switched to the right side for awhile. And as you say, Zuzi disappeared in the middle of the game.

But that may be a bit of me projecting ahead. I just see wide open spaces on the flanks that a fast team like Ghana will tear apart. If only we had a wide midfielder with world cup experience who puts in a lot of two way work.... oh, wait.

jon said...

Hey Clownshow, it mystifies me how you think your disdain for everything Greg has to say is somehow cute or playful.

Anyway, was this Turkey 11 the same that finished 3rd in 2002? Or the same 11 that made the semis in Euro 2008? Or is it the same 11 that failed to qualify for the last 3 World Cups and Euro 2004 and 2012? Or wait, maybe all these accomplishments and (mostly) failings are completely irrelevant to the team that was on the field yesterday.

Tony M said...

jon, interesting point about Turkey, They are a good side, but man it's clear why they didn't qualify. If they had anyone who could finished, they would have qualifed - and ripped us apart.

Greg Seltzer said...

It was a Turkey B side, dikranovich. Join reality.

dikranovich said...

Well, we all know nuri sahin is no b team player. A good portion of the turkey squad was comprised of players from the top two sides in the Turkish top flight.

I'm sure the excuse after the Nigeria game will be something along the lines of Nigeria not taking the game seriously

Besides, since you knuckleheads all feel so strongly about the Donovan omission, I don't see how you could call the USA an A team. So it was b v b, and turkey had its most accomplished player, we did not.

justinwkoehn said...

Dik, it must be exhausting to be you.

dikranovich said...

It is justin, at this time of the year.

Michael Bradley has some interesting comments in today's Steve Goff article. What he basically says is that there is no need for over analyzing these games. There is a bigger picture and larger goal, beyond Azerbaijan, turkey, and Nigeria, and this is where the teams focus is.

This b team shme team crap is bogus.

Greg Seltzer said...

Accurately understanding the level of opponent faced is bogus?

Gotcha. I suppose the next time they beat Spain or somebody big we should also disregard the accomplishment.

dikranovich said...

Greg, come off it. This turkey side is ranked right next to Ghana in the rankings. Stop trying to move the goal post.

Your comments before the game were that you had a bad feeling about this, now youre on about this b team BS. And if it was a b team, truth is they would probably give a better game than an a team at this point in time. So actually, at the moment, turkey's b team is better competition for the USA than its a team.

The Spain game in 09 means very little in the big picture. The brasil game in that cup was much more important. Get that through your thick amerland cranium. It did mean a little more than usual because we kept Spain from topping Brazils record, but that didn't matter to them in the finals, they were playing to win another trophy.

We are playing for trophy god dang it. Second place means nothing, except in the group stages.

Greg Seltzer said...

You have a serious reading comprehension issue.

Oh, and the thing about Turkey B being a better opponent than Turkey A... brilliant. That might be the most intentionally ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

Unknown said...

Haha you are the worst Greg. It seems like you hate this team, because no matter what you find a way to negate their accomplishments. That was in no way, shape or form a Turkey "B" team. Just because Turan and Yilmaz were missing, you automatically discard the fact that 8 out of the starting 11 played in the majority of their qualifying campaign, and were on an unbeaten streak?

Greg Seltzer said...

I am the worst? I seem to hate the team? Oi vey.

No Turan, Topal, Toprak, Altintop, Yilmaz, Emre, Kaya, Inan. Your math is way off. And their little unbeaten streak was all friendlies, with many of those missing players having featured prominently before the two unbeaten games on this US trip.

Ask any Turk on the planet and that was a B team, with no great analysis needed.

dikranovich said...

Greg, I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself, because Selcuk inan scored turkey's lone goal on a 90 th minute pk, after having played the full 90.

Altintop is a big player and emre also, even though he is 34.

what we were looking at with this turkey side, was what we will see from them going forward.

I'm still bemused Greg that you forecasted trouble for the USA in this game, then you changed your tune after the game to promote the idea that it was a b squad. Surly you new the players on the turkey squad before the game took place, and before you forecasted doom for the USA.

dikranovich said...

You're bound to be right one of these days tsar Gregor, but let's just hope it comes in late July, after the World Cup.

Greg Seltzer said...

As I said, your reading comprehension is woeful beyond belief. I said, and you can feel free to go look at it forever, that I had a bad feeling about the ***diamond midfield***. As in for World Cup. I made no mention of the Turkey game in that sentence.

Greg Seltzer said...

Oh, AND he said ***starting eleven***. So Inan coming off the bench to score late is irrelevant to what I said in reply.

I know you like to invent your own facts and reality, but reading truly is fundamental.

dikranovich said...

I'm lost Greg, are you saying inan did not start the game against the USA?

Greg Seltzer said...

Urgh. Yeah, he did. The point remains, minus Inan.

Unknown said...

Emre and Altintop haven't played for Turkey since last August, can they really still be considered part of the starting 11? That's a stretch, Greg. Also, Topal wasn't even called in and Arda has been injured, which is why they weren't included. You can only beat what is in front of you and available. If you do that math, subtracting the two aging players who haven't featured in 9 months, Turan, who was injured, and Inan who, you falsely claimed, didn't start, you have 4 players who could be considered starting material in your list that could have played. I don't know about you, but that still doesn't signify a pure B-team to me. If Clint, JJ, Besler, and Graham were replaced with AJ, Becks, OG, and Bedoya, you would consider that a B-team? C'mon, Greg.

Greg Seltzer said...

Yeah, those two have not played since a competitive match. That does not mean you can simply erase them from the A team. Topal was not called in because they are trying new players to get ready for the next cycle, nothing unusual.

Like I said, ask any Turk.

Unknown said...

What are you talking about, Greg? The last match they both played in was August 14,2013 in a friendly vs. Ghana. They still had 3 WCQ's after that game, in which neither was called in. Also, do you know everything Turk and their stance, Greg? Assumptions are dangerous, man.

Greg Seltzer said...

Oh dear lord, now there is two of them.

Look... if you take the best 4-5 players out of any line-up and put in three guys with 5 or fewer caps, play a couple defenders in midfield and put out the (at best) third choice striker, yeah you have a B team. How this notation is controversial is beyond silly old me.

And yeah, I know and talk to a lot of Turkish people. What of it?

justinwkoehn said...

Let's just call it a B+/A- team and move on.

Greg Seltzer said...

I am here to call it what it is. You can move on or not, that is fine. But this is not a negotiation. :)

justinwkoehn said...

Shoulda took the deal, cause now you got three of em! I don't think this Turkish team was as good as they have been 1 or 2 years ago. That's why a lot of people consider this a B team, but that's not the criteria for determining A vs B. A means that they called in the best available players. They are also rebuilding for the next cycle, so they are phasing out aging players. A couple of those have been phased out for a few months, so it looks to me that they did in fact call up the majority of the best available players, hence the A team argument.

dikranovich said...

Greg, delete your comments from your banana post, with regards to you attributing comments to coach klinsmann, which he did not make and maybe we can call it even

Greg Seltzer said...

@ justin:

Do you really come here for someone who takes deals from the readers on his view? I find it highly strange it can be argued this is a Turkey A team. Let us leave it at that then.


@ dikranovich:

I changed it to include the players, because it was the proper thing to do. Klinsi has said such things before and is essentially saying that here by claiming there is no best set for a given team.

There, that is far more than anyone ever got from you.

justinwkoehn said...

No, I don't expect you to take deals from your readers. You can from time to time, however, concede that another point of view is conceivable, even if you do not agree with it.

Greg Seltzer said...

Where I am from, A team means all starters. Now, one may wish to rate this as higher than a B team. Fair enough in that direction, I have not argued that.

But no A team in the world has a third choice striker, a center back with two caps, two others in midfield with no more than five caps each and clearly the best few players missing. And yes, if you perused a Turkish paper or spoke to a Turkish fan, they would term this a B team. I do not know what else to say, that is my stance.

And it certainly is not to be mean to the US performance, as some have suggested. I am not here to cheerlead for the team or look on the bright side. I do that when I am off the clock. On the clock, I am a vermouth dry robot with no personal feelings or wishes for the participants. because that is how I was told it is supposed to go. So that is what you all get. And if you all liked everything I said, I would be doing it wrong.

dikranovich said...

Inconceivable.........