Friday, July 4, 2014

The Full Mondi-al

I have more aftermath stuff to share with you, but my phone has been going crazy the last few days, giving me much to chase. I did, however, find time to knock out the full World Cup USMNT player ratings many of you asked for.






- Greg Seltzer

34 comments:

bhamhawker said...

Where do you think Besler ends up?

RobUsry said...

No complaints. Good assessment Greg. Very disappointed in Zusi. He was completely invisible and a liability from the run of play. Yedlin should've started against Belgium. Bedoya was in there for his defensive help. Anything he added to the attack was icing on the cake.

Tony M said...

Reasonable mix of ratings, some I like more than others. (Big surprise, right?) But what sticks in my mind - and I promise this the last time I'll mention it - but look at the grades for the guys who got picked over Donovan - Zusi, Bedoya, Wondo, Davis, Johanssen. Success wins all arguments, but these were not successful choices.

As for Green, no one isn't excited to see him playing for the US and it was a nice goal. A rating that high based on one quick appearance is a bit much - typically that factors into an overall rating. But yes, he was good in his few minutes.

As for how that reflects on JK, he got subbed in to what JK assumed would be garbage time minutes as a pat on the head. I'm not giving JK credit for that one. If, on the other hand, he gave the kid lots of minutes from game one on, standing by his conviction that he was a big player, I'd applaud him. The fact that so many of JK's "good" moves (Brooks for Besler, Yedlin for Johnson) were forced by injuries and that his more tactical moves (Cameroen for Beckerman, Wondo) were flops, is telling.

Freegle said...

I agree with Tony M. Klinsmann is getting a lot of credit for things that I felt he backed his way into more than made a master stroke. Regardless, one more think on Klinsmann. How can he get a passing grade when he failed to deliver on his own stated goal? I don't think anyone expected him to get better overall results than Arena and Bradley before him. But we all expected the results to come with more flare, more possession, and less defend-and-counter. That expectation came because Klinsmann promised it. He more certainly did not deliver on that. We are the same team we were four years ago (and quite possible set up to be worse in the future). We are just less honest about it now.

RobUsry said...

People we're complaining non-stop about Yedlin and Brooks making the roster over guys like Goodson and Evans. And yet when those decisions pay off, he "backed his way" into them? I wish Bob Bradley had backed his way into not picking Bornstein in the 2011 Gold Cup. He'd still be our manager.

bighurt chavez said...

I think their was no defensive world cup experience, Onyewu may be playing second division football, but he has 2 world cups under his belt and has played in top leagues.

Tony M said...

Rob, I was arguing that Yedlin should have been on the team a while back. So I'm not one the "people" you are referring to.

Yedlin was the right pick. Brooks was one play - a like for like sub forced by injury. I'm glad he scored, but it was not the result of a tactical change. When injuries forced JK's hands, they worked out. I will give him full credit for Yedlin being on the roster. But every TACTICAL change he made that was not forced by injury, fell flat.

I can't see how that is not significant? Like I can't see how one injury, to Altidore, having such a huge effect on the whole approach is not significant. The roster overall did not give him depth or the ability to adapt tactically. That's job number one for a World Cup coach. If his name was Bradley instead of Klinsmann, more people would be roasting him.


(As for Bob Bradley, if Charlie Davies obeyed curfew and Gooch landed properly and/or Jones had healed in time, he would probably have been the first coach to get us into the semis.)

soccer boy said...

I say church!

soccer boy said...

Well here's the thing about it nobody stood up to take that back up spot. So it is what it is. Just like I can say I wish jk bought in a target striker. But no he had to play mad genious. Now germany is in the semis again in world cup. Proving anybody can manage germany as long as your not too dumb.

soccer boy said...

I like this passage. At times, the team played above the coaching decisions. I said that this week that the team got this far inspite of him! Great minds think alike greg!

futfan said...

Klinsmann isn't the answer. I'm not sure who is but it ain't him. And the fact that Felix Magath is slamming Landon Donovan, for being right about the Belgium match and saying pretty much what every knowledgeable U.S. footy fan already knows, is beyond offensive. Magath can eat a bag of dicks.

Klinsmann fucked up by not taking Donovan, Boyd and Goodson and then he plays not to lose with 9 defensive minded players in a win or go home match. The guy is full of shit and not to be trusted. We'll be much better off when both him and Gulati are gone.

AWF08 said...

...Felix Magath. A man who burns every bridge he's ever crossed. Who rarely sees out the length of his contract. And, who "has it out" with two to three players every season (Jermaine Jones more than once) is a great voice to turn to for comment on a situation he knows nothing about.
Nevermind the fact that Ballack, Lallas, Reyna, Keller and every other pundit on ESPN said the same exact thing just minutes after the game.

AWF08 said...

Well said Tony. Also, as reports of AJ needing ankle surgery surface I recall his first day in camp he stated that his ankle was still bothering him from the knock he'd missed time for during the Eredivisie season and he was hoping to get fit during the camp. The next day, Boyd and Donovan were gone. I don't believe AJ played a minute in the warm ups either.
So, how do we change Klinsmann's grade now that we know he took an injured player over two healthy ones in a position that became critical during the tournament?

dikranovich said...

There has to be more people out there to defend our national team from the naysayers and knowitalls.

England has a lot of naysayers and knowitalls too.

Greg Seltzer said...

What in precious hell are you babbling about? The team is full of adults who can accept criticism, fair or not. Stop having a convulsion just because someone does not fluff skirts every five seconds.

dikranovich said...

Greg, we are starting to get down to the kibbles and bits. Donovan says coach klinsmann was tactically naive, yeldin tells Donovan, our greatest American player ever, of all time, to go stuff it. That's what this is all about. Oh, and tony m a quakes fan, telling everybody he discovered yeldin, and of course the naysayer, knowitalls, who think they know more than, well really, anybody.

How long will this continue in our soccer culture here in america, with everyone thinking they know better than everyone else? Where will the common understanding about this game come from?

Greg Seltzer said...

Riiiiiiiiight. And everyone should just cut to the chase and realize you know better than all.

Something like that?

dikranovich said...

Greg..........

justinwkoehn said...

It's a reality that most fans of the game knows: To be an attacking side, you have to have better quality players, great midfielders that can hold the ball, and a competent back line that doesn't need 3 gatekeepers. The US attacking style was very entertaining over the last couple years vs equal or less quality opponents. If your opponent outshines you in quality by a great deal, then you have to become compact, absorb pressure, and play the counter game. Even if we had Jozy up top and Landon at CAM, we would have gotten crushed 4-0 by a more talented Belgium side if we played attacking football. Until we have players that can equal the quality of our opponents, we will have to play more defensively in order to even the playing field.

Greg Seltzer said...

Well, I do not even slightly agree Belgium would have walked over us in a toe-to-toe with Donovan and Altidore in the line-up. In fact, I would LOVE to have seen that match.

dikranovich said...

I wish we could get over this idea that playing compact, absorbing pressure, and countering is the game used by teams, exclusively with less talent than their opposition. This is a central premise with team like Real Madrid, and ac Milan, and Italy. So basically it is used by the top European club sides of all time, and the number two country with most stars on the jersey, of all time.

Andy Palmer said...

You gave bit part players like Green FAR too much credit. He had the advantage of being on the field when the opposing side was only worried about defending their lead; being able to expend energy defending AND still be able to effectively attack - that's worthy of high scores.

AWF08 said...

Donovon, Ballack, Keller, Reyna, Lalas, Nicol, Hislop, and others all made the same exact point (I think Greg made this point somewhere in here as well) on ESPN on the broadcasts following the game. I think everyone is latching on to WHO said what, rather than the content of WHAT was said. Which, in my opinion, is lazy.
We didn't play compact and we didn't play open--we played somewhere in between. THAT is the point. We were spread out, had open channels for Belgium up the middle and down the right and they exploited them all game long. We couldn't play an open style with possession because we never had possession. We didn't have the right personnel on the field for either one style or the other and we weren't organized. A compact, well organized, defensive team that counters does not force it's goal keeper to make the most saves in recorded history--a disorganized, tactically naive one does.
If you think history has baring on what happens in the present: this is the exact reason why the players revolted at Bayern Munich. Philip Lahm, "He didn't care much for tactical stuff. It was up to the players to come together before a match and discuss how we were going to play."

dikranovich said...

Wait awf, Claudio Reyna, who wrote the handbook on the style and formation we should be playing, came out against said style??? Come on....... Philip lahm is a company man, use your head, you got one.

Donovan showed too much apathy towards playing for the USA. Where were his advisors post 2010 to tell him 2014 was going to be his last chance at a World Cup. I'll tell you where they were, they were to far up his backside, that's where. Blowing smoke....

AWF08 said...

So, you don't address any of the points made in my post, but instead say that Reyna didn't say what he said on national TV and Lahm didn't mean what he said in 2009 or in his biography in 2011. Then, we get an incoherent rant about Donovan's advisors...
Just so you know--Reyna wrote the hand book on youth development, NOT style of play during the World Cup. But, that bit of truth wouldn't support the absolute B.S. spewed in your post. So, we'll ignore it and go with what you said.

dikranovich said...

Awf, you are latching on to what I said, rather than the content, to which you would say there is none anyway, but either way, it's kind of lazy, per your own theory, don't you think?

AWF08 said...

n Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]

dikranovich said...

This idea of not having the right personnel, shoot, anyone can say that when you lose.

The truth is, now that it is over, USA gave its all in the second game and really got deflated losing what was a sure three points. This second game leads to the USA playing a pressure filled third game and it took steam away from our team.

Awf, you should ask yourself, who is smarter between coach klinsmann, and all the guys you mentioned?

dikranovich said...

Awf, there was no discussion before

dikranovich said...

Isn't it funny that bob Bradley was always ridiculed for his lack of tactics, and when he made some change, it was said to be forced on him by injury, if it worked out well. Now it's the same thing with coach klinsmann. And the irony is that England hire tactical geniuses in eriksson and capello and they are no better served.

If this wasn't so god dang sad, it would almost be funny

justinwkoehn said...

Greg, I would have loved to have seen Jozy and Landon in the lineup as well, but I was just saying that even with those two available, you wouldn't have seen an all out, aggressive, attacking, high press display vs Belgium because even with those two, we do not have the talent to dominate possession and always be on the offensive vs high quality teams. We would have still been somewhat conservative (less so than we were) with those two in the lineup.

Greg Seltzer said...

@ justin:

Nobody said anything about always all-out attacking or whatever. And I do not agree that we lack the talent to possess the ball and play a more complicated system.

justinwkoehn said...

While I agree that we can be that side very soon, I tend to disagree with a lot of the naysayers stating that the tactical approach to the game was detrimental rather than beneficial. I think the 4-3-3 put us in a position to have a chance against better side (much better or marginally better is up for debate). I don't think we played as well defensively as we had in the previously three games which is evident by Howard having to make 16 saves. We had our chances, we didn't capitalize, and Belgium finally claimed their well deserved goals.

soccer boy said...

I say church!