Monday, October 13, 2014

In come six, out go six.

Klinsi has refreshed the USMNT roster page ahead of their game with Honduras. World Cup vets Bradley, Besler, Dempsey, Jones and Zusi enter along with Sean Johnson, while Brooks, Donovan, Gil, Gonzo, Guzan and the injured Gyau make tracks for home.

- Greg Seltzer


dikranovich said...

coach klinsmann is going to be looking for starting spots for most of these players that have been added, if not all, save the keeper.

it does present a little bit of a dilemma. they could go with jozy flanked by zusi and deuce, and really it would probably be more of a 4-3-2-1. this is doable, and jones, junior, and zusi, or maybe bedoya play in the midfield.

we would be moving yeldin back to fullback,

I really really think we are going to see a 3-5-2. ream made a big tackle the other night, that might have saved the game for USA. he could earn a start, and that could prompt the coach to move to three center backs.

orozco had a nice game and it is hard to see him going to the bench, and with besler being an auto starter, this makes sense as the backline.

yeldin and either bedoya or zusi makes sense on the wings, and you let deuce and altidore work up top and that leaves a three man central midfield triangle as the guts of the team.


USA fans should really like seeing this formation and lineup.

justinwkoehn said...
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justinwkoehn said...

I wish JK would have called these guys in for both games and signal a big FU to MLS for not honoring international dates like the rest of the sane world.

dikranovich said...

Justin, I think you would have to admit that Europeans don't care when MLS is scheduled. we are on a spring, summer, fall schedule, not a fall, winter, spring, schedule.

this should be an advantage for USA, as MLS is in midseason form when world cups roll around, whereas Europeans have just ended a long season. we really should want a summer Qatar world cup, over a winter one, if those are the two options.

justinwkoehn said...

But that's also why US teams get smoked in CCL year after year.

dikranovich said...

It'll be nice to win that event, but it would be pretty sweet to go down and win a copa sudamerica, or yikes, copa libertadores.

Mexico has just had better quality in the past, and probably better home support, and the elevation and smog advantage.

justinwkoehn said...

I always thought a strong focus on CCL would eliminate the need for MLS playoffs, and make the supporters shield that more important. I love the drama of playoff systems in American sports, but for some reason there's little excitement when it comes to the MLS playoffs.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

How crazy would it be to have a 3 5 2 with Jones playing outside back?


This talk of a new position has me intrigued and I have to think its a way to try and keep him around for as long as possible. It could be a CB position in a back four... that's simpler. But an outside back in back 3 might still allow him to get forward some. It would also keep Besler, arguably our best CB as the commander of that back line.

Just some early Tuesday speculation for fun...

Pragmatic Idealist said...

Also imagine a back three player back line of Jones, Besler, and Cameron.

That would seem to be an interesting flexibility...

Greg Seltzer said...

To all those somehow intrigued by the prospect of playing a 3-5-2, let me just sprinkle a little break down on it...

1 - You are basically demanding your DM to play as a CB. Please factor this into your hopes for possible use of this set.

2 - You are, by default, conceding extra time to the opposing wingers, often the most dangerous players on the field, if not also the fastest. Please factor this into your hopes for possible use of this set.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

You just about always asking your DM to play CB. If you play a dmid at all, that is almost a given. It could mean new value for guys like Cameron or Edu as the dmid over guys like Bradley or Beckerman though. As the slotting into the back line will likely happen more often.

I don't know that it automatically concedes extra time to opposing wingers. What it does, is require the outside backs to handle those wingers 1 v 1, as the dmid slides in.

In the case of Jones, Cameron, or Besler that doesn't seem catastrophic.

I think its an intriguing idea that could get the US wingers more up the field and allow the US to play more midfielders, or which we seem to have a plethora.

But really at this point, its just fun speculation.

Greg Seltzer said...

Four-man backlnes do not ask the DM to play CB. They ask him to front the defense. If he is dropping back into the box so urgently, the DM has likely already either caused or missed a problem.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

Not really. In the way the back four has been played with the outside back pushing high up the field, you end up with a three player back line anyway. The dmid has to fill the gaps, depending on numbers.

There really isn't a huge difference in a back four with a wingback pushing up high and a three CB back line- except personnel.

For example, with Johnson pushed up it required either the outside mid to switch and fall back (rarely happened as they were usually combining) or it calls for outside back to slide out and the dmid to fill any gaps.

IF you're playing a 3 player back line, then those cb's are going to stay home more and not push up. The dmid still fills the gaps based on numbers.

That's always been my understanding of the best rotations anyway.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

Of course I am talking about in transitions... When the other team has solid possession... then wingers handle the outside threat.. just like they would as an outside back in a back four. You end up with a 532 on defense or two lines of four.. depending on how its coached.

This could be coached differently, of course. You could coach the wingers to stay up as midfielders instead of and slide the dmid into the back line... allowing for speedier transitions... That would call for more of the dmid falling into the backline.

I think those rotations would just depend on game to game tactics and specific personnel at hand and opposing personnel.

Greg Seltzer said...

I am not saying it is demanded the DM plays CB in a certain situation. I am saying it is demanded for basically the entire game. Big difference.

Pragmatic Idealist said...

Agreed. It would probably change the focus of that position from Bradley/Beckerman/Trapp to either Cameron, Edu, or even Jones.

Its just an interesting question...

justinwkoehn said...

With Johnson playing on the left wing for club, I could see him play opposite Yedlin in this formation.

Dany Tzvi said...

we can't play a 5-3-2 because we would get killed on the wings. we can't generate any wide offense with 2 wingers and 2 fullbacks, taking away one of those wingers doesn't sound like a good idea to me. we would be incredibly easy to defend.

dikranovich said...

PI, you are making fair points, but it should be noted that the American 3-5-2 uses two defensive midfielders, not just one.

and it makes sense if jones was going to slide back into central defense to ease him back there through this defensive midfield position, at home not less, in a friendly.

Bradley is the other d-mid and he will be playing more advanced, and mix will be at the head of this central midfield triangle.

jozy and deuce provide high pressure, and d-yell and bedoya on the wings. bedoya defends better on the wings than he does in the center anyway. same goes for zusi, who will actually probably be starting over bedoya.

Greg Seltzer said...

The "American 3-5-2"? When and edid you witness this animal?

dikranovich said...

Greg, you are trying to be fresh, and smug, and I already got a Swatch.

there is pressure that comes with playing in the top leagues, but. No team has won a World Cup without having a top domestic league.

So I don't know, you go figure it out.

Dany Tzvi said...

brazil 2002 started 2 players from their domestic league in the final, in 1994 they had 3. it is now less challenging for players to go from the Americas to Europe than then. this is the blueprint for a western hemisphere team.

dikranovich said...

Dany, you make a fair observation, but both of those teams were represented by half players from their domestic league, and half players from Europe. And when we are talking about where these players were developed, that's 100 % in the brasil league.

People, and this goes to the other thread, soccer is becoming more global, not less global. Europe will always be a hotbed for soccer, but that does not mean that in 25 years the landscape will look like it does today.

Maybe brasil is realizing that they need to regain and retool their domestic league, to meet the needs of the modern game, or maybe it is sell all your best players to Europe, and then let those players become duel nationals, so that their children will play for some European country.

Dany Tzvi said...

your right, they did have a lot of role players and benchwarmers from the brazilian league, just as we should have role players and benchwarmers from MLS. our top players should not be in MLS. we can't win a world cup like that.

bradley and dempsey got their start in MLS. MLS is making us talent (not as well as it should but its happening)

the point on freedom of movement is meant to put the 94 and 2002 squad players in perspective. had those players existed in 2014, almost all of them would be playing in europe.