Tuesday, November 17, 2015

Your USMNT Line-Up v T&T

Not really digging the Yedlin swap to midfield, but the rest seems fine.








- Greg Seltzer

38 comments:

justinwkoehn said...

I'm fine trying FJ at LB for 30 minutes, and I'm also fine trying Yedlin at RW for a few as well (not the entire game), but for the life of me I can't figure out why we don't "try" these things in the last game, and stick with the solid formation for this game. I get that Yedlin was exposed, but he needs to keep learning from it. He plays the position in the EPL, so he'll figure RB out sooner or later.

DaM said...

Amen. Yedlin is clearly uncomfortable in situations he doesn't see at right back (e.g. closed in on the endline by 2 defenders he almost universally gives the ball away). I was fine with FJ moving back because it made sense i context of trying to get a goal but keeping him on the field. Yedlin for a full match at right mid continues to make no sense to me. Yes, Yedlin had some fault for the Heat goal, but he certainly wasn't alone in that fact. I get using Orozco if you feel he is a safer defensive choice... but then use Yedlin as a speed option off the bench and start someone useful in midfield.

Zevi Altus said...

i think this is a result klinsmann will be fine with. a 4-4-2 with CBs at FB, not much attacking gonna come out of that system. clean sheet and if your big guns can snatch a goal good, if not go 0-0. and we *should* have snatched a goal if zardes was not woeful in the area. if its up to me i want to go in and really try to control the game, but for what JK wanted out of this match i think the tactics were fine.

DaM said...

@zevi I would agree that the tactics were not surprising. But is that really the attitude we should be adopting? 4 center backs, 2 defensive mids (who play horribly together) and hope for the set piece goal? Not saying this is anything new for the US in CONCACAF... but wasn't JK supposed to lead us past that? I found it to be a coward's lineup. A coach without the courage of his convictions ... or the knowledge of how to implement his vision. Either way kind of sucks.

dikranovich said...

It's funny that Germany played Portugal in the World Cup using four center halves, and two defensive mids, and it did not seem to hamper their scoring ability as they throttled Portugal 4-0.

dAm, One day American fans might embrace the American style, and rather than looking for the team to play like this or that, they might start to appreciate and advocate it, the American style. When that day comes we will be taking a Great Leap Forward

Greg Seltzer said...

Erm, quick question: was the Gold Cup showing from our embraceable American style?

DaM said...

@dikranovich I have been hearing about the "American style" for a long time. I have always kind of found it insulting. Lots of athleticism and try hardedness. The implication being "they can't really play, but man they work." I guess as a fan of the beautiful game, I like winning... but I like playing beautifully too (ironic, I suppose, since my "best" years were as a keeper).

I think that is part of what has always attracted me to this game. That results mattered but there was also something about the aesthetic artistic nature of the sport that lends itself to appreciating more than just the score.

Don't get me wrong. I would happily take a world cup championship kicking, chasing and running hard. However, I would note that with that "American Style" even our coach told us we don't have much of a chance of winning the world cup. The point is, teams that just play it over the top and hope for set pieces goals have a pretty clear history of winning jack and squat. Teams that win like that, still usually do so because they play good attacking socccer. Germany being a great example.

So yes I have loved my share of McBrides and Sanneh's, but my favorites have been named Claudio and Tabare (okay fine, John too). There are many reasons for that, but core amongst them is the possibility that a generation of players that play the beautiful game beautifully may do more than be proud for managing to survive a purported group of death and bow out quietly shortly thereafter.

Not to mention that when we gave this Manager the keys, THAT is what he promised. Possession, attacking, attempting to win... not just holding on with energetic defending. As for Germany v Portugal. Yes, Germany fielded a team that looks defensive, though arguing that players like Lahm aren't perfectly comfortable in the attacking third is silly. That was also against a Portugal team WE scored 2 goals against using 3 defensive midfielders. Little admitted fact: that Portugal team was not very good and our group really wasn't the group of death.

Cheers.

dikranovich said...

Maybe the real problem is that fans are not able to embrace the American style, because they are not even able to corrctly identify it. And what is identified as the American style, is in fact not the American style, just an individual's interpretation.

Only one country on this planet has more world cups than Italy, and the Italian game is defend and counter, and the Italians can play some of the most beautiful soccer, and they produce players of the highest standard.

Once these fans, these USA fans, who yearn to see USA play like Barcelona, or the Dutch, once these fans get with the program, we can do great things.

There is an American style, and it is evident in the first goal scored by the USA at Italy 90, and also with the last goal score in Brazil, and many of the goals scored in between. Rather than tying to change this ingrained approach, doesn't it make sense to work to enhance it?

Greg Seltzer said...

First of all, no it does not, because whatever you imagine has been the American style over these years is not good enough to achieve at a top level. Obviously.

Secondly, this thing where you attempt to blame fans or even writers for setbacks and such is overtly ludicrous. Where do you get this stuff?

Finally, I will ask again: was the Gold Cup showing indicative of our embraceable American style?

dikranovich said...

Greg, I'm not sure if the American style was truly on display at the gold cup. We might have had to much possession against Jamaica, but we did get more shots on target by a three to one margin.

2015 was not as bad as first thought. The first game of the year was 2-3 in chile, then we Won 2-0 v panama, then a loss and a tie with Denmark and Swiss. Next comes six straight wins against some good opposition. Before the tie in the group stages against panama, when we know a win against Cuba sees us into the knockout stages. The Jamaica game was a tough loss and in retrospect, we might have been better off facing Mexico in the finals of the gold cup. Scratch that, we definitely would have been better off. Maybe we looked ahead to that gold cup final, rather than taking care of business in the semis first.

Greg, you want the U.S. Program to follow in the footsteps of the Dutch, that is no secret. You are not the only fan who thinks like this, and some people want us to emulate Barcelona. Heck, even our national team coach has this vision, we think. We did just hire some AZ technical director type, who is going to revamp our youth program.

Is the way forward for our program to become the Dutch lite? What the hell??? We could at least Strive for being Germany lite, or Italy lite, couldn't we? God forbid we become Brazil lite, at least then we know we could win world cups. I mean, out of all these counties, Brazil draws talent from a population that could most resemble our own population, yet, these American fans have aspirations to see us playing like the county with the tallest population in the world, or barca, a team that resembles a bull fight with their tiki taki, and bullfighting ain't even legal in the USA.

JJO said...

Isn't the whole "X country has this style, Y has this one" a particularly antiquated way to view international soccer? Was Spain a tika-taka team when it won Euro in 1964? Isn't one of the remarkable things about the current German squad the fact that they redefined themselves away from the traditional German style? Does a country like Argentina actually have a signature style? What is the Belgian or French or Chilean or Nigerian style, uniquely and specifically? Or is it more broadly a South American-style or African-style or Continental-style that is nothing more than a shortcut description for talking heads and fans to act like they are familiar with each team each major tournament?

I think if you look at the history of World Cup winners up to 1990 you can pinpoint maybe 6 countries with a signature style. The game has changed drastically worldwide since then and the vast majority of countries simply don't follow historical styles unique to themselves.

dikranovich said...

JJoh, the Dutch have a style, don't you think? and it has evolved over the years, but the principles are engrained. Brazil has a style, and it is different from Argentina. Argentinas style is more Italian, than South American. African counties have their own styles, and teams along the west coast of Africa play a different way than teams from Northern Africa. Yes, Algeria, and Egypt have a similar style, and Ghana, Cameroon, and Ivory Coast, all play a similar way.

I'm not sure that the style of the German team has changed a whole lot over the years, but the players who play in this system has. It looks to me, having just watched games against t and t and Jamaica over the past couple months, that these two teams play with a similar style, but doesn't that make sense that they would? Why does this idea challenge people's sensibilities so much? It should not, because this stuff is natural, it's organic.

Jjo, what you want, what dam wants, what tsar Gregor wants, it is not natural, or organic, it's something built on false pretenses, and it is a fools gold, and it's holding us back.

Greg Seltzer said...

This is the same abject nonsense you post constantly. Say something different or move on. And your style book is rather off anyway (Cameroon, Ghana & Ivory Coast play the same? Huh?).

dikranovich said...

i just don't get how this idea of an American style is such an affront to people's beliefs. It's crazy!!! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? No, it wasn't, and USA didn't go off and start fighting like the French. We fought like Americans.

Why is soccer different?

Greg Seltzer said...

You make no sense at all. Move on.

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

As you wish.

Dr.Jon said...

Maybe what @dik is trying to say is all "modern" soccer is built on Dutch style, no? High pressing, technically sound, possession oriented with lots of positional interchange - "Proactive" soccer, opposite of counter attack. In that how can it be anyone's anymore? There has to be something between catenaccio and all out attack.

I think you could argue Mourinho plays "American" soccer - team defending, tenacious #6, counter-attacking soccer. Definitely not en-vogue and he catches a lot of flack about it.

'There is no new generation (of managers),' Mourinho said. 'What it is, is people who got some idea, some philosophy, and want to create something like, "we build very well from the back, we have a very good ball possession, we don't play counter-attack".
'But if you don't play counter-attack then it's because you are stupid. Counter-attack is a fantastic item of football, an ammunition that you have, and when you find your opponent unbalanced you have a fantastic moment to score a goal. 'So I think people are creating (illusions) and it has influenced public opinion. But football will never change. Football is to win.' (Mourinho)

We are a young soccering country, we should build players and styles that take the best elements of all the best teams of the world and make that our own. With 300M+ citizens, we should be able to do whatever style we want, right? That last part of the Mourinho quo, 'football is to win", is the American way... :)

Greg Seltzer said...

Dutch teams use the counter also - they just prefer to start the attack at midfield or in your end, rather than out of their back. They also rely on team defending and a strong #6.

dikranovich said...
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dikranovich said...

Why is it such a big deal to reason that domestic leagues mirror their national team, and the other way around. Then some wise guy will point to the EPL and say why hasn't England won a World Cup in forever, if they have the best league. That's the argument against. Every time...

Let's discuss the American style in a reasonable fashion. Dr Jon makes a good point about taking the best from all these influences and different styles that make up the American population. Have we achieved this ideal, or have we been dangled a fruit of something more beautiful, that has caused us to lose sight of what really wins championships?

Joe Bailey said...

As far as I'm concerned, the US has a style, and I'm pretty happy with it. We played with that style almost to a semi-final in the 2002 World Cup. Hugh Dallas screwed us up big time!! Fast forward to the past Gold Cup, all I saw was a team trying to play despite their coach demoralizing them. Personally I think we should emulate the Dutch—yes I'm a fan— when they played 5-3-2 in the World Cup. We need 3 center backs and 2 forwards. Joey can do what he does best, his hold up play and Wood can score.

Greg Seltzer said...

If we ran a 5-3-2 against good teams, Wood and Jozy would never see the ball.

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

It is not ridiculous. First off, that was a Chile B side, so you have just danced right around the lone qualifier in an eight-word clause.

Besides, Wood was completely invisible. Altidore scored from a deep throw and some two-man game out of the corner (which is very Dutch). But the formation was a mess, so they changed it at halftime. The first half was mostly the US lobbing long balls.

And I have no idea what Russians have to do with this.

Greg Seltzer said...

A better example would have been the Shea opening goal, but again... incredibly green Chile side and it showed. That was not exactly a difficult goal play to defend. They just let him walk right in.

dikranovich said...
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dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

Ummm okaaaay... I am going to have lunch now.

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

Yo. This is not going to work. I am cool, so you act out? Nah.

Act right or you disappear again.

PS - And do you really think I eat mayo? Get serious.

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

Funny you did not mention how FabJo bagged a goal and an assist from left wing in the Champions League tonight...

:)

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

Oh dear... winning what??? I am stopping you from dominating threads with the same shit you repeat over and over. Multiple posts in a row. Etc etc. Enough already.

dikranovich said...
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Greg Seltzer said...

Oh right, I forgot all the personal insults.


Dude, you know how to get along here. You just will not stick to it. Stop being a headache.

dikranovich said...
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