Tuesday, January 19, 2016

Morris says "Nein"

There's no telling of the reason at this time, but if Jordan Morris decided to stay home because the path to games is easier, then I'm not a fan of the decision. And while we're on the topic, let's just be clear about something else: it is not the USMNT staff's job to "support" MLS.

It is their job to win and develop international players. There is nothing at all wrong with them wanting the players to be competing at the highest level, and at this time that is not back home in America. Wishing for players to go to upper level Europe (let alone the Bundesliga, arguably the top league in the world right now), or even pushing them there, does not make them "anti-MLS" or represent anything they should apologize for - and the same can be said for scribes who back that stance. Ahem.






- Greg Seltzer

28 comments:

dikranovich said...

He was going to get plenty of minutes at werder Bremen, and probably at the expense of Aron Johannsson. I mean, come on you guys, he was not going to get the love in Germany he will get in Seattle. This is the greatest news, and when he does go to Europe, and that is a very good possibility in the future, he will be going for top dollar, and that matters.

We are going to build us up a strong domestic league, and it is going to happen rather quickly, and there will not be any mistaken when MLS is a top league, because the silverware they win, will be the proof.

Win two of the next three concacaf champions leagues and maybe get to the finals of sud America, and our national team is going to be doing big things in Russia. You can bank on that!!!

dikranovich said...

Actung baby!!!

Patrick said...

I'm all for MLS, but the league is hurting the USMNT at this time. The salary cap keeps the league minor and Morris will never have to worry or get better.

MLS is helping other CONCACAF teams by giving their players better competition. This is all a big factor in why the US has had tougher competition regionally. Bradley was the turning point and Donovan before him.

Once players get into MLS it is very hard to get them out. If is too easy and the transfer rules/demands unrealistic.

The problem is that soccer in this country is tied more to the USMNT success than MLS success. 25 million watched USA v Belgium, did 25 watch Montreal lose the CCL title game? If the senior team does poorly, MLS will be the biggest loser.

dikranovich said...

I really think it is worth noting that Five world cups have occurred since MLS first started back in 96, the USA has been to all five events, and has been to the knockout round in three of them.

In the five world cups prior to MLS, USA participated twice, once as host, and USA made the knockout rounds once, when we were hosts, and there were extra places available for the knockout rounds.


Let it sink in, please....

Don't forget, randle el will not let his children play football, but I think they could take to soccer like gangbusters.

DaM said...

I mean it is well and good to say things like "win 2 of the next 3 concacaf champions leagues" when MLS hasn't won one in ... ever. The finals of sud america? We didn't even make the Gold Cup finals.

I support growing MLS because it is a long run aid to our national team. That being said, I do get a national team coach thinking about current development for key players like MOrris. I am just not convinced Bremen was a good locale for that. They are in pretty severe danger of relegation. Fighting for playing time just to get into the 2 Bundesliga (with a new coach) is a bit of a different story from fighting for time in the Bundesliga.

dikranovich said...

Dam, I know you realize copa sud America is a club competition and copa oro is a tournament involving national teams, but maybe you didn't realize that MLS has won continental club tournament twice, both times were during the cycle leading up to the 2002 World Cup.

The way some soccer fans in this country view European football, it reminds me a little of the way the French view jerry Lewis. Oui, oui!!!

Patrick said...

What USMNT player, that played solely in MLS, made an impact at any World Cup? Our best players have always been in European leagues, now they are not. MLS has overpaid them to play in a Minor league. Is it a coincidence that Bradley, Jones, etc. moving to MLS is right when the USMNT started their or form (except for two friendlies with mostly European based players).

Even at the U-23 level guys like Pollster and Gil seem overmatched while European based guys like Kiesewetter, Zelalem, and Puliscik stand out.

Yedlin would be the clear RB for Seattle with no competition. He needs to up his game to get minutes with Sunderland; which is in a relegation fight. So, why is Morris going to get better in Seattle rather than WB?

I wouldn't mind staying at Seattle then moving, but it sounds like MLS compensation already complicated this deal and no way MLS let's him go next year.

Patrick said...

What USMNT player, that played solely in MLS, made an impact at any World Cup? Our best players have always been in European leagues, now they are not. MLS has overpaid them to play in a Minor league. Is it a coincidence that Bradley, Jones, etc. moving to MLS is right when the USMNT started their or form (except for two friendlies with mostly European based players).

Even at the U-23 level guys like Pollster and Gil seem overmatched while European based guys like Kiesewetter, Zelalem, and Puliscik stand out.

Yedlin would be the clear RB for Seattle with no competition. He needs to up his game to get minutes with Sunderland; which is in a relegation fight. So, why is Morris going to get better in Seattle rather than WB?

I wouldn't mind staying at Seattle then moving, but it sounds like MLS compensation already complicated this deal and no way MLS let's him go next year.

DaM said...

I don't really get your point? Yes they are all different tournaments. I thought your point was domestic league success would lead to international... mine was that we have had neither recently yet somehow you assume they are not just imminent but soon to be overflowing. That's a pretty unsubstatiated degree of faith considering we still have not addressed the major timing hurdles to MLS winning the concacaf cl.

If you had actually read the point of my post you would have garnered the fact that I fully support MLS as an important part of our country's developing players. Not thinking a relegation threatened team where he would eventually be competing with another american for minutes and potentially wind up STILL competing for minutes in a league worse than MLS is a good idea should not somehow equate in your mind with someone being a europhile. Unless you are just being argumentative and dikish.

Greg Seltzer said...

He likes to mention 2002, but skips over how lion's share of that group was either with a European team or had spent development time overseas. He also likes to skip right over the regression we have been in since all the current stars came back to MLS, leaving mostly youngsters (and injured guys) across the pond.

Micah said...

Hasnt Morris already shown himself to be the exception to the rule at this point? It wouldnt surprise me at all if he plays two years in Seattle and then moves to Europe for 10 times what he is being offered now. Everyone thought him staying at Stanford would slow his development down, and it didnt...so how is MLS going to slow him down? He gets guaranteed PT with quality players, whilst continuing to develop with the NT. And when was the last time a college kid went directly to a top 4 league and had success? He needs PT more than the glamour of playing Bundi ball.

dikranovich said...

Patrick, if you with a straight face can tell me that Kyle beckerman did not make a tremendous impact in 2014, I don't know, how about Eddie pope? It's really sort of a silly premise, because early players had to go to Europe, while more recent players have wanted to go.

But many MLS only players have had positive impacts at world cups. Jeez..... What's going on here that people can feel this way? Doesn't it make you wonder how USL fans feel or NASL fans feel. Here we have Americans that eschew the superiority of Europe, while putting down our top domestic league, meanwhile, there ar a lot of American fans who flock to second and third division teams.

But so and so is just so excited to see their favorite player playing in Europe. Like its a special treat, just for their viewing pleasure.

This BS is killing me!!!

dikranovich said...

Greg, let's talk about the things you bring up. 6 players had zero MLS experience prior to 2002, three of those players were Kasey Keller, cherundolo, and David Regis. Now, you make your point.

dikranovich said...

Ok, Another point, three players heydude, Lewis, and sanneh were in fact on European club teams at the time, but they did not develop with those teams, and their development occurred at UCLA, and DCU, and other places around the USA. Playing and developing only in MLS was not a problem for Pablo mastroeni, or Clint Mathis, or dmb. Not to mention Eddie pope, or josh Wolfe.

Of course pretending as if Donovan developed in Germany would be an injustice, and a gross one at that.


When you get down to it, the players that developed in Europe, that played in the 02 World Cup, you have Ernie Stewart, top of the list, then JOB, Reyna, and berhalter. Beyond this, UCLA should get at least a little bit of credit for developing so much talent.





brian said...

Dik:1 - Greg and his minions:0

Greg Seltzer said...

Frist off, dikranovich, stop piling up unanswered comments (including your add-nothing sockpuppet). Secondly, no one is putting down MLS, grow up already. Thing the third, you are *still* ignoring huge points made to you. Finally, you are lying through your virtual teeth - O'Brien, Stewart, Reyna and Berhalter had zero MLS experience in 2002 (quite the massive attempted exclusion) and Friedel had spent most of his time in Europe. So basically, all the usual old nonsense from you. I'm done responding to it.

dikranovich said...

I'm not here to sling personal insults, but I think some reading comprehension would help, I really do.

dikranovich said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Greg Seltzer said...

You're done. Bye.

dikranovich said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Greg Seltzer said...

@ Micah: I missed this earlier due to the human disturbance... but who says Morris gets guaranteed PT with Seattle? They already have three DP players up top, plus Friberg and Ivanschitz who can play as wing types.

Matt said...

"First they came for the Diks, and I said nothing for I was not a Dik..."

That was overdue.

Fennel said...

Greg,

MLS is one thing

USMNT is another.

Going forward, the fortunes of the two entities are not necessarily directly tied together.

If MLS player quality is strong it may be because of a bunch of players most of whom are not USMNT eligible.

This has happened in England where the BPL has been consistently one of the top 4 leagues in the world for the entirety of its existence. Yet during that time England have ranged from underwhelming and underachieving to abysmal in both the World Cup and the Euros. This has been attributed, among other things, to the massive influx of foreign players thereby freezing out English players.

This is the same basic template followed by MLS albeit a low rent version.

MLS has Americans, mostly, as inexpensive filler while the quality is provided by bargain basement foreign players bolstered by one or two vintage DP’s. And if you look at the college drafts, both recent and going back a ways, you will see that the best players there are often foreigners too.

It a rational, sensible strategy for a developing league, but one that is not friendly to the USMNT’s needs. Not that MLS cares.

And most of all, it works. The League is growing and expanding . So MLS has no incentive to change.

If MLS is weak then it is even worse for Americans because the quick fix for that is get more bargain basement foreign players.

In America pro sports owners are used to free youth development systems like the NCAA. MLS talk a good game but their efforts at developing local youth have so far seemed pretty pathetic, comparatively speaking. MLS seem unwilling to do the massive investment that developing a truly top notch academy system would require. Especially when they don’t really need to do it.


So the USMNT cannot expect MLS to develop the exceptional players in quantity that it will need to get better.

In the near future the quality players the USMNT really needs will mostly come from abroad in the form of kids like Hyndman, Zelalem, Pulisic, Gyau, Wood, Rubin, Green, Brooks, Yedlin ,Gooch, etc. hopefully before Russia but probably not.

These kids will be sprinkled on top of the MLS journeyman types. The best development set ups are abroad in places like Barca, Colombia and Ajax, etc.etc.etc.

MLS won’t do it anytime soon and USSF doesn’t look like they can afford it so why not take advantage of what’s already out there?.




Patrick said...

Beckerman didn't start in the knockout game. He was a good role player.

Chris said...

Yeah, and him not starting was possibly a mistake. Also don't forget Donovan who was an MLS lifer, and Besler who was our best CB despite a niggling injury.

Micah said...

Greg- I think he plays because he offers things no other Seattle player can, immense speed and power and constantly getting in behind defenses. Dempsey and Oba don't have those qualities. Plus, I don't think Seattle can afford to sign him for the money they did and not play him. Morris has exceeded expectations at every level and I don't think MLS will be any different.

Adrian said...

If Morris was going to a team like Colorado, San Jose, Houston, etc., then I'd be sour on this move. But going to Seattle, he'll be learning from 3 fantastic strikers and yet, due to their age, get plenty of playing time.
This is also a player who was able to improve while subject to NCAA restrictions on how many hours per week you can train, etc.
We will learn a lot about Morris this coming season. How he physically holds up over a whole season of professional soccer, how he deals with making mistakes in front of 60,000 people, etc. Morris will learn that about himself too. I've got no problem with him learning that stuff in the comfort of his own home rather than in a foreign country. He has been a professional soccer player for all of one day. The USMNT shouldn't be relying on him to carry the team anyways.
All that said, if he's playing in MLS in 3 years, I'll probably be disappointed.

Fennel said...

Chris,

Donovan was not exactly an MLS lifer.

He signed his first pro contract for Bayern Leverkusen directly out of IMG Academy for about 550,000 and spent a year in Germany. Unable to break into the first team he engineered a loan back to the Quakes in 2001.

Since he was a star pretty much from his first game with the Quakes, I find it hard to say that MLS developed him.