Friday, March 25, 2016

Your USMNT Line-Up v Guatemala

Let me see if I can read the tea leaves to find the formation we'll have from this group...



Hmm, hard to tell for sure. Is it a diamond 4-4-2? A 5-3-2? Perhaps something like this?









- Greg Seltzer

56 comments:

reanalyst said...

Yeah, good question. Nice to see Wood start, whatever the formation is. Thoughts on Castillo?

dikranovich said...

This is rock em sock em robot

Cameron playing on the right, with yedlin in front of him.

Junior and mix disk at the Top and bottom of the diamond, and a double dose of deuce and wood up top.

Hopefully orozco can cover for Castillo, and bedoya does a good job of tracking back

Both besler and Brooks are late scratches

dikranovich said...

Are you guys hearing coach klinsmann, he explained it nice in that two minute interview.

dikranovich said...

USA is going to win this game by at least three goals

UnitedDemon said...

I'm not sure that's the formation.

Cameron looks like he's playing right back,

Greg Seltzer said...

Good grief, dikranovich, don't you ever tire of being wrong? I would say this is a clown show, but a clown show would be far more organized.

Tom said...

So. Not working out very well right now.

dikranovich said...

Be ready for a serious debate when this game is over Greg seltzer!

Greg Seltzer said...

Nope. You've already lost it. And stop stacking up unanswered posts.

dikranovich said...

Greg, you can't put out a lineup, which was not accurate, then pretend that the team lost because the players were not in the positions, you said they should be in, nor the formation. Isn't that what you are doing? My initial post, corrected your inaccuracies.

DaM said...

Greg said quite clearly in his post that he was guessing at the formation they would come out in based on player selection. Instead of always trying to... ahh never mind. Just a broken record anymore.

Anyway, That was brutal. Who would have thought we would look terrible with more than half the team playing out of position. It's not like we had a ton of time to practice, maybe it would make sense to ... ahh never mind. Just a broken record anymore.

Greg Seltzer said...

First of all, I was not "putting out a line-up" - I was taking one of several possible stabs at a guess. Secondly, it is very easy to place a large portion of the blame for this loss on how the players were positioned. Duh.

Again with the working backwards from your fantasy scenario. It seems like after this horrid match, you should be looking for a place to hide. Either way, enough commenting solely to compete with me in your imaginary games. Either discuss reality like a normal poster or leave it out.

Greg Seltzer said...

DaM wins everything.

dikranovich said...

Give me a break you two knuckleheads. Orozco is a right sided player who was forced to play on the left because john Brooks was hurt and so was besler, who from the sounds of it, would have been playing left back, and of course, the boss, Tim Parker was with the U/23s. So the backline was out of sorts, and mix didn't do a very good job marking on a corner kick.

Jamie said...

Dear dikranovich,

Some people, when they have absolutely no bloody idea what they're talking about, stay quiet, listen, and learn. Others talk more and louder, so as to remove any doubt. Guess which one of those categories you fall into.

Regards,
Jamie

dikranovich said...

Jamie nice chap, if you see the world in black or white, that's up to you. and if you want to talk footy, that would be great too.

downintexas said...

The USA is becoming more and more of a joke.

Jamie said...

Well, I came here "to talk footy", but I was discouraged when I arrived to discover there was no intelligent conversation to be had—just nonsensical verbal diarrhea and petty bickering...which reminded me why I'd stopped visiting the comments section in the first place.

dikranovich said...

Jamie, the floor is open to you, comment on the game, and give your thoughts. I am pretty disgusted myself, but the reality is that USA control her own destiny, and two of the next three are at home. A win at home on Tuesday puts us a home win away, against t and t from being back top of the table, with a road trip to st v&g to close out the round.

downintexas said...

Greg,

On MLSSoccer I have to disagree on Klinsman's rating. It's too high.

dwc414141 said...

What a dumpster fire. Do we make a change at manager soon, or must we wait until we fail to qualify for the World Cup?

dikranovich said...

Dwc, let's address this issue after Tuesday's game. Of course if the USA lose on Tuesday, it might just be a moot point.

Freegle said...

Why should we wait until Tuesday? Why is it not enough that we are in danger of not getting into the hex? This tenure is an ABJECT FAILURE. Name me another manager of a nation that professes to want to be an international contender that is given a leash this long. 3rd place in the hex qualifying group!! There is no excuse to take fewer than 3 points in every match in this round. What's more, did anyone see anything tonight that makes you think that we will break down Guatemala when the park the bus on Tuesday?

dikranovich said...

Freegle, after last nights game, the USA is one win, one loss, and five draws in WCQ against Guatemala, in Guatemala.

Is Marcelo bielsa available?

Patrick said...

Klinsi keeps expecting CONCACAF teams to park the bus and fields lineups to play the attacking proactive soccer so many US fans scream about. But Jamaica, T&T, and now Gua simply come out and pressure and the US if unprepared. Bradley is not good, Orozco should be nowhere near the team not Mix at the moment. But I don't know why a player like Bedoya, who had been playing great, has such a horrible game. The next coach will hopefully have more to work with talent wise, but Klinsi is not getting close to the most out of our talent pool (which is more limited than many fans think but certainly better than all CONCACAF teams except Mexico)

Joe Bailey said...

Next game with Guatemala it has to Nagbe, Bradley & Beckerman in the middle. I say give Guatemala credit. Unlike us, they had a plan and stuck to it. Also of course the coach being the sublime genius that he is, likely used players who are currently starting, and play at the positions they actually play for their clubs... What a radical idea!

ZackL said...

I think what's worrisome about all this is that last night was not the first time that Klinsmann's questionable tactics and lineups have torpedoed what was otherwise a winnable game. To be fair, nobody covered themselves in glory last night (though Cameron was probably the best of a woeful bunch), but when you're playing guys out of position, and sending them onto the field without a coherent game plan, what result can you really expect? His seeming inability to learn from past mistakes (why he felt the need, after the Brazil disaster, to slot another attacking mid into an unfamiliar defensive role is beyond me) makes me extremely leery of the remaining WCQ fixtures and Copa America.

What's going to happen when Jurgen's clown car roles up to Santa Clara in June? What new farcical line up will come tumbling out to face Colombia? Or even against Guatemala in Columbus on Tuesday? It's frustrating that after five years, we don't seem to have progressed as a program, or even developed a consistent lineup or coherent playing philosophy. Two things which have generally not been issues under previous coaching administrations. I don't honestly know if it's time for him to go or not, but I think that with each passing game, I become more and more concerned about the direction we appear to be heading in.

Dany Tzvi said...

defensively and in the midfield there were some problems. orozco and mix in particular were poor (though, again, both playing out of position)

but going forward, it wasn't bad. we had 5 clear cut, 1-on-1 chances from no farther than 12 yards (bedoya twice, dempsey twice, altidore once). all of these should have been goals, missing one or two chances like that is poor, missing all five is outrageous. there's not really anything klinsmann can do about that.

imo heavy blame on JK, yes, but not all the blame. lineup and tactics were not optimal but they should have been good enough to win that match. players gotta play.

downintexas said...

WHOA WHOA WHOA Joe Bailely, lets not get ahead of us now. That is crazy talk! Why would any sensible coach play players that are starting AND play them in positions that they excel at.

Luckily on Tuesday we will see a completely new starting line up.

ZackL said...

@Danny

Definitely agree: players gotta play. A lot of the guys out there had an off night, at best. But squandered chances and Motta's ridiculous game aside, I think that last night is emblematic of the structural issues that have plagued Klinsmann's tenure so far. Jurgen promised a lot (maybe too much) when he took over, and on the field, I don't think he's delivered so far. We'll qualify for the WC, but is the team, and program as a whole, progressing with him as Director/Coach? I'm not sure that it is. Is the product on the field today better than it was under say, Bradley? Maybe that's not a fair question to ask, but it's one that's starting to crop up in my mind more and more.

Granted, it's my understanding that Klinsmann is doing a lot of work behind the scenes at US Soccer and hopefully that will bear fruit, but that might not be evident for years. So all this hand wringing could look pretty ridiculous in hindsight.

DaM said...

Mix not covering well on a corner kick? Do you really think that first goal is down to just mix? That was the defensive scheme on the corner kick was man mark everyone single coverage, nobody on the post but ALSO nobody zone marking middle in case someone gets free?? I don't pretend to know what marking scheme they planned on running there, but as a former keeper, I can guarantee you that there was more going on to the first goal than mix losing his man. At least 1 other person was grossly out of position (not positive who but I would guess it's either Castillo or Orozco).

The moral of the story here is it is great that Klinsi has guys he "trusts" but he has not learned who the right people to trust are. He constantly goes back to the well on Orozco and I can't recall the last match Orozco has played where there hasn't been a goal (or missed sitter) caused by Orozco falling asleep (in this case at least 1, when orozco didn't bother to track Ruiz's diagonal left to right run because he figured Bradley would get the header).

As everyone is saying, player gotta play but they need to be put in positions where they have a better chance to succeed. If you don't have time to practice... play players where they are used to succeeding. This loss isn't JUST on Klinsi, but it is definitely largely on Klinsi.

Dany Tzvi said...

i coach youths and the stuff that's been coming down from USSF in the past few years has been really good. the federation has modernized the development curriculum and format, and has made that format much more standard across the country. id be down with klinsmann staying as director and giving up the manager post, but that seems like a long shot.

DaM said...

@Danny does that stuff even come from Klinsi anymore? I remember a while ago reading about a rift between Klinsi and some other folks and that Klinsi's TD title was mostly powerless now.

Dany Tzvi said...

no idea, really. i was gonna say tbh i dont know how much of it is him, but i forgot to mention that. he did pimp the 4-3-3 heavy, and that is now the standard formation USSF wants academies playing (for younger kids, derivations of such), but that, and any other innovation, may be coincidence.

Greg Seltzer said...

The pimping of the 4-3-3 came from Claudio Reyna's curriculum, not from Klinsmann.

DaM said...

Makes sense. Claudio is the man.

downintexas said...

Pulisic has been added to the team! Can't wait to see how he does as a CB! Klinsmann for life!!!!!

J.D. Springer said...

Hey, now. Let's lighten up a little on Klinsi. Maybe we can chalk up the loss in Guatemala City to the new unis and redesigned crest.

On a more serious note, whatever happened to the fighting spirit of the USMNT? Seems like our fearless leader has lost the room once again. I guess we'll find out Tuesday night.

Joe Bailey said...

I have a bad feeling we can lose this game on Tuesday and nothing will happen because we got out of the 'group of death' in 2014...

I hope we win.

ZackL said...

@Joe

I think we'll win on Tuesday, but I agree with you. We (and I mean USMNT fans and sports fans in general) tend to let the most immediate result paper over whatever serious issues may be eating away at a team's over all ability and performance. Like with the "Group of Death" in 2014. Sure, we got out, but we also played somewhat erratically and based an entire tournament's worth of tactics on playing Jozy as a lone striker. And when his he was injured, there didn't seem to be a Plan B. Or even a backup target-man to fill Jozy's spot. But we got out of the group, so all that went by the wayside.

There's just a lack of consistency about Klinsmann's decision-making that is baffling at this point. I know we don't have the depth of talent that top-tier teams like Germany or Brazil enjoy. But I think we've matured enough as a program to have grown out of the "throw it at a wall and see what sticks" phase of roster and line-up building.

Ufficio said...

If we lose Tuesday, our chances of qualifying to the Hex drop to a single-digit percentage (at best).

Hard to see Klinsmann and Gulati hanging on to their jobs if that happens.

Dr.Jon said...

I read this (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/398996-2010-fifa-world-cup-us-soccer-tactics-and-formations-to-consider) in a 2010 pre-world cup piece on tactics.....the question was (should the US continue with the empty bucket 4-4-2)

"at the same time, the empty bucket keeps the US weaknesses at bay, which all, in short, are technical flaws—poor touch, relatively poor passing vision, and limited tactical acumen."

6 years later and this is, unsurprisingly, still true. You can see, I think, if you are a little knowledgeable about soccer the movement, and I would say soccer IQ of our youth teams is higher than the senior team. They seem to move better as a team, especially off the ball, then the seniors do.

You can also see the frustration in Wood's face, and Cameron's face, and even Yedlin's face (and some others) when no one checks back to the ball to relieve pressure, they often has NO outlets and it often turns into a loss of possession or a poorly forced pass. They are used to that very basic skill, I would imagine, from playing with a better baseline of player.
At the moment, we are just a little too slow in the thought process sometimes to know when to go forward to receive a pass vs. pulling back and getting into a good angle to receive an easy pass (more horizontal than vertical movement). At the moment we still have yet to master the soccer version of the "triangle offense" that is really critical and the backbone in team oriented, possession oriented, attacking soccer.

Sometimes watching our senior team is like technically/soccerIQ watching a college match.

Yes, Klinsmann's decisions are insane looking from the outside, but the more things changes the more they stay the same.

ZackL said...

@Dr. Jon

I'm not sure how much of a talent deficit (or at least an imbalance) exists on the men's senior team. I would agree that our younger sides appear to be benefiting from a better coaching philosophy that emphasizes technique and tactical acumen alongside physical conditioning. I also recognize that player development is a crucial area that we've struggled in for a long time, for a variety of reasons, though it appears that we may be turning a corner in that regard. But at the end of the day, I think the guys currently playing for the senior side are on roughly the same level. Roughly.

That being said, isn't it the job of the coach to develop and implement tactics that obscure a team's weaknesses while highlighting its strengths? I don't mean to absolve the players of any blame but Klinsmann has go to know, five years in, what works and what doesn't.

Side note: spare a thought for Mix, he's had a rough couple days...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/mar/22/mls-players-mix-diskerud-overrated-players-poll

Kirk Diggler said...

Klinsman is hauling in as much as 3.2 million dollars per year with bonuses. I wonder how much his buyout clause is, or would U.S. have to pay full fare on his contract?

I want him gone, it's nothing but pluses all around. No more Chandler and Green. No more blaming the players or officials. It's all on his flopping shoulders.

Dany Tzvi said...

i think dr. jon hits the nail on the head. there is no creativity, there is no vision. part of that is klinsmann putting square pegs into round holes, part of it is the players just not being there. it is the biggest gap between the current crop and the upcoming group that includes zelalem and pulisic

Joe Bailey said...

Supposedly that's what Klinsmann was supposed to do. I remember him criticizing the 2010 elimination game against Ghana. Making the case that the team was ill-prepared for that crucial game. He, unlike Bradley wouldn't make these mistakes. That he would take us to a higher level. It looks like he sold us a bill of goods.

dikranovich said...

People in American soccer have been talking about gaps between the younger players and the older players for a long time. It makes me wonder Dany, if now this is the reality, or just another case of over inflating. I imagine it's probably the latter.

Fortunately the last couple close WCQ played in Guatemala have been followed up by resounding wins at home. This is of course needed tonight, and if the players will not be playing for the current coach when and IF they qualify for Russia, then tonight they better come out playing for their lives, because that is what tonight is all about.

the response has become, " but we are not Germany, or we are not so and so", but Germany played seven games at the last World Cup, and their coach trotted out seven different lineups. Ozil as loan striker, ozil on the wing, Lahm as center mid, Lahm as right wingback, boatang as center half, boatang as wingback. It's not unusual to be loved by anyone! I do recommend Tom jones singing long time gone with csny as all time classic fusion.

You should all take a step back and realize that a 4-3-3, run properly, to effect, is really just a more attack minded approach to a 4-5-1. In defense a 4-3-3 has to turn into a 4-5-1, it has to, or it will be defeated. Of course if the Netherlands are playing against Malta, the Dutch can stay in the 4-3-3 all day long and not be to worried about the outcome.

So some 100+ players in MLS are polled and number one overrated, mix disk, number two overrated, the Jozy.

Maybe we can soon resolved the Benny feilhaber conundrum.

Dr.Jon said...

I agree with you Zak, I don't think there is a lot of technically disparity on the team, YET. There is between the U-23s and seniors no doubt, which I why I worry for Pulisic (and Green and any of our midfielders who really depend on a flowing interchange to hold possession well). T

Tactically it is on the coach, but the unspoken tactic of make a good decisions, don't squander possession, don't sit back so deep, get into space etc... aren't taught at this level.

Coach has said it before, the players need to make these decisions in real time based on positioning, "cheating" (at certain positions - is X player too narrow, are they getting too far forward - and how do I exploit that), tactical fluidity by opponents etc... our guys just don't seem to be able to do that.

Does anyone find it odd that our teams often do OK at the start, then the other teams (the better ones) make a player initiated change, we get overwhelmed and often limp into halftime only to presumably have the coaching staff reconfigure the tactics and we come out in the second half (sometimes with player changes) playing better? Does anyone else think that is an accurate observation? (it could just be me)

Our current generation of players go to a high press environment, panic, start coughing the ball up all the time. Then we start sitting deeper and deeper back. Our striker Wood, Altidore etc...gets further and further isolated from the withdrawn striker or #10 or however we are aligned and we start lobbing long balls like it is 1994.


It is gonna be a fun night, hopefully....
Wood
Dempsey
Zusi - Nagbe - Bradley - Nyguen
Alvarado - Birnbaum - Cameron - Yedlin
Guzan

Dr.Jon said...

...I want that to collapse into a 4-3-3

Wood - Altidore - Finlay

Nagbe - Nyguen

Bradley

Alvarado - Birnbaum - Cameron - Edlin


Like we said 4-5-1 in defense

Greg Seltzer said...

Alvarado at left back? This is another Klinsi idea.

dikranovich said...

Well Greg gets his 4-3-3, but really it looks more like a 4-1-4-1, but should end up like a 4-2-3-1. That winning by three goal thing, I meant that for tonight

Greg Seltzer said...

Nice word salad... I'd like Caesar dressing, please.

Tom said...

They really do pass into traps unconscionably often.

Tom said...

They really do pass into traps unconscionably often.

Dr.Jon said...

@greg I wouldn't expect him to perform worse than Castillo. I guess i think of it this way - and maybe it is Klinsy-esque. Alvarado is decent with the ball, technically good. plays LCB already, left footed. Castillo has to be pushing 30, right. LB is a mess, so why not at LB? Alvarado at this point is probably down the LCB pecking order.

Greg Seltzer said...

I don't follow any of this logic. He's been bad in his regular position for us and is not a wingback. I'm not sure why he was called, as he's not eve been playing with his club.