Wednesday, June 22, 2016

TDAY: Argentina

My patience is short for this business today. Here were my US v. Argentina player ratings. Here are my thoughts as we all hope for a better effort on Saturday...

  • BIG. FAT. UGH-OSAURUS.


  • This thing where the manager never puts his hand up and simply accepts some blame for his maneuvers on bad nights is really grating. Really. He talks about wanting to to stare down Argentina unafraid, then goes with that line-up/game plan and says the players showed too much respect. Muh huh.
  • What the hell has happened to our set piece defense? Far too often, this has become nap time. I'm still trying to figure out how no one was anywhere near Messi on the first goal.
  • I'm sure I'll take some guff and it's certainly possible my mind may change about a couple of positions tomorrow, but as of right now, this is what I'd go with in the bronze medal match. I'm not interested in sacrificing anything to bleed green players (except maybe Horvath); I want to win the game. Period. I want to see rally efforts from certain guys, and I like the idea of using Jones and Zardes as sub weapons.






- Greg Seltzer

22 comments:

DaM said...

I think that is the one thing we have learned this tournament. It is never Klinsman's fault. Nein!

I agree on going for the win, but I would switch out Bedoya (who other than working hard defensively has been below average all tournament) for either Zardes or Pulisic.

I would also go back in time and include a real LB to play so Fabjo can be on the wing :)

Failing that I would stick with Besler over Orozco. I think. 6 of one, half dozen the other.

kyle johnson said...

I agree that this game is not s time for experiments, play this to win. Id start Zardes again if he has any legs left in practice, dude deserves it, what a workhorse our danny welbeck. Nagbe needs to start but im sure itll be jones

Patrick said...

Bradley was terrible against Argentina. Game plan aside, he made terrible passes; too often to the wrong team. He should sit a game. Plus, this would allow us to play the lineup we will use against T&T where MB is suspended.

Kirk Diggler said...

He won't put Fabian at LW because as you and others have pointed out, doing so would admit that he is wrong about something, and Klinsman is never wrong and never plays anyone out of position according to his own mind.

Remember, playing Wondo with Dempsey up top wasn't an error, it's just that they weren't aggressive enough or they were intimidated by Argentina. The one default setting is that it's never on Jurgen no matter how head scratching the tactics, formation and player selection.

Dany Tzvi said...

a team takes after its boss. klinsmann has no accountability, and he has bred a team culture of no accountability. in a game like soccer where teamwork, communication, and understanding is *everything* this is a serious issue. he wants to build a culture that is ambitious and confident, but you have to be hardworking first. even argentina, the best team in the world, up 3-0 has players tracking back hard to slow and break up counters. we cannot become ambitious if we are discombobulated. in this regard JK has taken us 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

part of this attitude means that when tactics are not working, we do not adjust. bradley and beckerman were getting swiveled around like traffic cones, but klinsmann made no adjustments to the shape and left them out to dry the whole match. when they continuously advanced down the left side, pinning yedlin back, we did nothing to slide our shape or to counter down that same side. we came in to the match with terrible tactics, which is to be expected from this coaching staff, but the fact that there was zero effort to adjust is really disturbing.

the greater theme that was at work, for me, is the continued fact that we do not have the depth. it killed us in 2010 when we lost davies and onyewu. it killed us in the 2011 gold cup final. it killed us in 2014 when we lost altidore. we came in to this match with no altidore, no wood, no bedoya, no jones. the replacements - wondo, beckerman, and zusi, were quite poor. So we have no depth, this is not new, but looking forward this is a trend I see continuing into the generation that is coming through right now. we have pulisic, zelalem, miazga, some really fantastic players okay but who else? tommy thompson, maki tall, paul arriola? of those guys from the u-20 world cup team last summer, how many play meaningful first team football now? the u-23 team, same stuff, how many actually panning out? i don't think this is a problem that will be solved before 2030 once professional soccer in the country has generated more free academy systems.

downintexas said...

Fab is LB for the rest of Klinsy's tenure. Only way he gets bumped and put back into LW is if by some miracle the US has a LB starting on a top 10 euro team. That is it.

We all knew we were going to lose the game. We have good players, but let's not kid ourselves we are no Argentina. Once I saw the line up I knew we were going to lose by at least 2. But after seeing absolutely no game plan, no tactics what so ever, I'm at a lose of words. We beat teams we are suppose to beat, most of the time, and lose to those we aren't. Fine. But when we look incompetent playing those better teams, that is all on the coach. We need a coach not a cheerleader.

Question. In a game with meaning, no friendlies, have we beaten a team that we should have lost to while Klinsman in charge?? Boro we beat Colombia, Sampson we beat Argentina and Brasil, Arena we beat Portugal and Mexico in a world cup. Bradley we beat Spain in the confed cup. Klinsman who???

Patrick said...

Bradley beat Spain but got killed by Mexico later and had to pull off a miracle to get to Spain after being used to mop the floor by Brazil and Italy.

Arena beat Portugal. But with everything to play for they got dominated by a mediocre Poland team and was lucky to even make the knockout rounds. Everyone forgets these games that the US would lose that they were supposed to win like Poland in 2002, Ghana in 2010, Iran in 1998. I'll take a semi loss to this Argentina any day over that Ghana loss after the most dramatic win in program history. JK got some things wrong Tuesday. But Bob had a horrible game plan for Ghana and his starting Clark a big error.

That is why the wins against Paraguay and Ecuador were great. Those are the types of games that the USMNT usually has lost. The USMNT had not beaten a European team in Europe until Klinsman I believe. Friendly or otherwise. Think about that!

Greg Seltzer said...


@ Patrick:

Just a few things to clarify about your post. First, it is quite incorrect that Klinsmann is the first one to beat a European team in Europe. The team had already done that several times, with Bradley, Arena and even Sampson at the helm for such wins. Also, to be fair, Klinsmann has had far more cracks at this type of feat than his predecessors. Perhaps you were thinking of the fact the Klinsi is the first to post a win over Mexico in Mexico.

Also, we were not favorites over Ghana in 2010 and the 2002 Poland team were certainly no pushovers.

There's a few other factors that go unmentioned. Clark also started in the Spain win. The Italy and Brazil losses in that same CC2009 were shorthanded, red cards for the US in both. And, of course, Klinsmann has absolutely also lost games the US should have won.

Patrick said...

Greg, I remember something like that being said during the friendly win against Italy (MB's greatest game in a US shirt). But maybe it was that result was the first win for the US against a World Cup winner on their soil ever. We have since beat Germany in Germany too.

I think most US fans expected a win against Ghana. You have to admit that was a bad loss. To start the game letting Ghana split our whole team with a 40 us through ball is a joke.

Poland was a decent European team; the kind that always beat the US until recently.

JK has done better against Europe, no doubt. His particular problem is CONCACAF minnows in non-Friendlies. That is why the Costa Rica game was also very satisfying.

The USMNT had zero players in the UCL knockout round. Progress will be shown when we have 3-4 at least.

Patrick said...

Greg, I remember something like that being said during the friendly win against Italy (MB's greatest game in a US shirt). But maybe it was that result was the first win for the US against a World Cup winner on their soil ever. We have since beat Germany in Germany too.

I think most US fans expected a win against Ghana. You have to admit that was a bad loss. To start the game letting Ghana split our whole team with a 40 us through ball is a joke.

Poland was a decent European team; the kind that always beat the US until recently.

JK has done better against Europe, no doubt. His particular problem is CONCACAF minnows in non-Friendlies. That is why the Costa Rica game was also very satisfying.

The USMNT had zero players in the UCL knockout round. Progress will be shown when we have 3-4 at least.

Greg Seltzer said...

Whoever said that was mistaken. Bradley won in Switzerland and Poland, Arena won in Poland and beat Poland in Germany, Sampson won in Austria.

If most US fans expected to win that game so certainly, they were clearly failing to understand the level of the opponent.

As for the CL knockouts, England constantly has loads of players in it and plenty of talent, but they have become a constant disappointment. Why? Because some of their managers are routinely filled with wretched personnel/positional ideas (at least at the international level) and their "national identity style" that eschews tactical, technical play can't compete anymore. Sound familiar?

Joe Bailey said...

Well said!

Joe Bailey said...

No the first time the US beat a European team in Europe was with coach Bradley.

Patrick said...

Do England have that many players in the UCL KO? Sterling is the only semi-starter that made it far into the tournament. Maybe you count Wiltshire with Arsenal? Not that many English players at all. That could be their problem. Even if I'm missing one, that is not many and Wiltshire and Sterling were non-factors.

Compared to Brazil, France, Germany, Argentina, Spain they are mostly Europa League players. The USMNT has 2-3 Europa League players, some down table EPL and BL guys and many MLS players.

Patrick said...

Not trying to defend JK really. My argument actually makes his tactics against Argentina look even more dumb. Even if it was a "learning experience", the guys on the field are mostly not the ones that need to learn such things. What those things are I don't know and JK won't deign to tell us.

Keep up the great work Greg! Let me know when a Spanish team comes in for Nagbe ;)

DaM said...

amen on the england front. I think hodgson and jk spend time together discussing their strategic and personnel strategies... which is to say they just sit there staring into the empty void of each other's eyes.

downintexas said...

DaM

While circus music plays in the background

Greg Seltzer said...

@ Patrick:

No, England had little in the way of CL knockout participants this past year. But they have had many over the last 15 years and their NT just keeps getting worse.

@ Joe:

Dude, buddy, I was *at* the game when Arena coached the US to a win over Poland in Dortmund. Sampson beat Austria 3-0 at Ernst Happel a couple months before WC98. And actually, Bora won in Iceland in '93.

Dany Tzvi said...

the USMNT's first ever FIFA match was a win against Sweden in Stockholm, which is beside the point but just an fyi.

bora also won in romania and iceland.

bob gansler won in poland.

walter chyzowych won in hungary in 1979.

klinsmann has won some impressive frienlies no doubt and he has done some good things but overall i think it is fair to say that our growth is below the expected curve. it's not the results of the matches, it's how we get there. basic, avoidable mistakes made by the manager time and time again. he makes the mistakes and he does not learn from them. we need a manager who can learn.

downintexas said...

It looks like Klinsman is going to make one change. Howard in goal. I wonder if this is his farewell game.

Nagbe and Pulisic will come off the bench. (Nagbe should start IMO)

Joe Bailey said...

Yes I remember now. That was a sloppy post from me. Ok maybe not the Bora win in Iceland though... I wonder if Rikki Dadasson and Earnie Stewart played in that game? Anyway I was just trying to make the point that an American coach can beat a European team in Europe...

Joe Bailey said...

I think that's the real point Dany. Klinsmann is just reminding me of Arsene Wenger now... But even he admits to mistakes from time to time.