Tuesday, October 10, 2017

Staring into the nothingness...

I have the saddest USMNT player ratings ever to write and I really don't want to spout off while the wound is still fresh as can be, so I will leave this here for you all to kick around tonight's pathetic, maddening "effort" in Trinidad & Tobago. I will come back tomorrow with so much more to say.



- Greg Seltzer

22 comments:

Zac Harris said...

Words cannot express...

downintexas said...

well technically, Panama didn't score. Got royally Concacafed up the arse.

downintexas said...

But regardless, if we can't beat T&T in a must tie, hell not even a must win, we don't deserve to go to the WC.

JustinWK said...

Just...numb right now.

Matt said...

@downintexas I 100% agree. That was absolutely horrible.

Hopefully, we learn from it.

Patrick said...

This was 2002 vs Poland all over again. Nobody really dweller on the debacle in 2002 because we got lucky with the SK vs Por game. But we had won and drawn the hard habe and just needed a result against the group losers. US came out flat, Arena was complacent, Poland scored two quick and we had no answer.

That loss always annoyed me. I just watched that nightmare again. The US soccer media never dwelled or asked about Poland.

Now the media darling sends the team out without 2 of its 4 best players, against a team a T&T domestics. A team that has one chance to score, isolate their player on a CB and hoff it long. Our brilliant coach sets us up so we are totally vulnerable to that . Add in that CB routinely makes huge errors, but he played for Bruce, he can trust him.

I'm so pissed. Pissed still about Poland. Pissed that Arena almost psyches his players out with his talk of CONCACAF road conditions. Pissed we didn't follow up any good hone results with a win on the road.

Everyone on the USMNT over 25 can go. Altidore, raising his hands and walking away after being dispossesed in the center circle that comes the other way for the winning goal, it boggles the mind.

Having any plan that requires Nagbe to defend boggles. T&T killed us on that side. Howard showed in MLS and against CR he is done, but he starts?

Bradley, goodbye. He is the one constant in the last 4 years of failure.

Greg Seltzer said...

Yeah, I'm sick to death of this "content with a road draw" bullshit mentality we refuse to toss out. Even with the improvements around CONCACAF, that pre-fab excuse crap should have been gone two cycles ago.

DaMa said...

Look there is a lot you can say about a lot of different players in this match. But in the end we continued to rely on a backline that just wasn't very good. Arena over relied on a guy like Omar Gonzalez because he "trusts" him but that is a false metric. We should have either been in a 3 man backline to cover for the inevitible flub that was coming on this pitch or we should have played Cameron. I know Cameron had a not great match, but he is clearly a better defender. I won't even get into the fabjo issue cause I dont have all the facts there.

Oh and for the record: it matters when a player can't pass the ball and has a clubfoot. I know Bobby Wood gets a ton of credit for the runs he makes and the work he does and yay for him, but it matters when he constantly flubs chances and over dribbles into a dead end and loses the ball.

I don't know much, but I know we didn't seem to throw out a team that looked ready to play in a mudder. In a Mudder Dempsey definitely should have been playing over one of the invisible forwards we played. Then again anyone who still doesn't get how poorly Wood and Altidore work together after watching Altidore have to drift out to the wing for most of the match isn't ever going to figure that out anyway.

Dr.Jon said...

Every niggling concern USMNT fans have had over the past several months (year?) were all exposed bone in this match:

Howard is getting old and is not as good anymore

MLS is hurting the speed/technical aspects of our players (JK was right)

Our CBs (exposed by lowly Martinique in the Gold Cup) was exposed by T&T in WCQ

Nagbe isn't our savior (JK was right)

Villafana can't defend (JK was right)

Arena is not the tactical genius he thinks he is (lucky Panama didn't bunker, played old slow side - Bradley still got overrun, tried again same formation and Bradley got overrun again - Arriola and Nagbe not aware enough to cover)

Also what was up with the Acosta sub? What does he add when you need a goal?

Besides the fluke of Panama 4-0 - Wood and Altidore don't play well together yet the US really needs 2 forwards to be a threat.

Say what you will about JK (his tactics were shit, so as a coach it really isn't going to work) but he had an eye for talent and hunger. JK was the anti-USSF. Arena is nepotistic and we suffered for it.

My point is not Klinsmann apologies but to note that the problem has always been the heart/will/talent of the players.

As has been said burn it down. The next Starting XI for the USMNT should have an average age of about 23.

Jayboy said...

Five years is a long time. I just went through the roster for the T/T game and just added five years to their age. The next World Cup will have only 2 or 3 of these players (assuming we make it). Pulisic, Yedlin, Arriola. Wood will even be almost 30 by then. It’s crazy how huge of a gap there is.
A few more thoughts : I feel saddest for Pulisic. This crappy team just robbed potentially our best player of a World Cup. A 19 year old basically carried the team (scored or assisted like 70% of our goals?) and the rest of the group couldn’t even get him there. How awful would qualifying have been without him? Would we have been eliminated before last night?

Who are our best 17-23 year old midfielders in MLS or abroad?

Jayboy said...

We damn well better hope that we have a lot of young players breaking out in the next 2 years, otherwise the USMNT is screwed for the next decade.

Last thought: will this spur any changes in MLS? We need to double down on investing in youth, but should the league adapt some rules requiring teams to play US players below the age of 23? I mean look at TFC and NYCFC. Where is the next generation there? It’s just Johnathan Lewis and Marky Delgado. You look around at most MLS teams and it’s the same. No team is giving regular chances to young Americans. Most “break out” players are like 23 - 25. Guess what, they are already too old. This is why the 23 under 23 list makes me puke. How about 20 under 20. If Dortmund and Schalke and Real Madrid can get 17 year olds playing time, then why can’t SKC get Erik Palmer Brown a dozen games? Why can’t Atlanta United get Carleton into a handful of minutes when the played 8 games in 23 days.

MLS desperately needs to change their youth rules and transfer rules as well. It’s disgraceful that Josh Sargent is playing rec league soccer for 8 months so he can go to Bremen. With more logical rules, he would have beengetting MLS experience for two years and then sold at a profit to Germany. Everyone wins. Right now, everyone loses. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Patrick said...

Dr. Jon and Jayboy, everything you write I agree with. When Germany had its Euro flub, they basically just plagued their upcoming Olympic team as their national team. We can do the same. Add the few under 25s we have and let's go.

----------Wood-----
Adams------Pulisic------Arriola
-----Mckennie---J. Gonzales---
Acosta---Brooks---Miazga---Yedlin
---------Horvath-------

Does that team lack energy? Walk around with their hands up?

Taitague, EPB, Gooch, Morris, Steffen, Sargent, Glad competing for spots.


Patrick said...

I'd like to see Cherundolo get an interview. Benitez might not be happy at Newcastle. Arena was the best MLS coach and just was in charge of the greatest disaster in USMNT history. Makes me discount all MLS coaches.

MLS teams win by exploiting the salary cap loopholes and the built in parity. Not by coaching.

DaMa said...

Maybe they don't walk around with their hands up but if Bobby Wood and Paul Arriola are still starting, we could still lose a match in Trinidad.

Putting this all on Arena is just as silly as putting it all on Arena in 2002. Clearly he made a couple of glaring mistakes in a must win match and deserves to be fired along with everyone else, but you can't claim that ALL MLS coaches are tainted because of Arena's performance and still be willing to play Bobby Wood anywhere at any time.

I am not saying I want an MLS coach, but I also don't want Bobby Wood, ever. We need to get past the point of one good trait (Wood's agressive runs, Morris's speed) out-weighing several bad ones (poor passing, poor shooting, constant dribbling until possession loss).

Also dual nationals who can still pick (I think that is J Gonzalez) are probably not going to keep picking the US.


gratefulag said...

The fact that you are choosing MLS players with minimal international experience versus those coming through the ranks of EPL, or Bundesliga teams is baffling. MLS is not on the same level and the product put forth by MLS players is mostly always inferior to players plying their trade in top division European leagues. Why aren't we being honest about this and planning accordingly? I think of Gooch, McKennie, Boyd, Hyndmann, Miazga, D. WIlliams, A. Morales, Carter-Vickers, Lichaj, and Chandler as legitimate options who have been passed over because of supposed better domestic options. The MLS has a ceiling, yet our leadership acts indifferent to it because they believe CONCACAF competition is inferior.

Patrick said...

The same reason there are not many 23-27 year olds on the national team is the same reason we don't have many players in top 4 leagues.

Work permit issues are a problem with the epl. Why it is good the BL seems to be big into young American talent.

But I'm with you. Not looking at Danny Williams was a crime. Arena had it in for foreign born Americans and it cost us. This MLS vs Europe is a dumb inferiority complex thing by MLS. Bruce had some kind of insanity about it with his quotes that he could coach oon Europe or "hot shot UEFA teams ".

Tom said...

Greg
Will be hoping to see your elaborated thoughts soon.
Tom

dikranovich said...

I'd give my thoughts, but I'm afraid they would offend, or maybe just bore.

downintexas said...

How ambitious that we are playing Portugal for a friendly in Nov, was hoping for San Marino or Lichtenstein some one we might get a tie.

dikranovich said...

Downintexas, it's a week later, almost, and the hurt is only going to get worse, the closer we get. I don't get your comment! If we tied t and t we are going to Russia. I don't get it! I really don't get it! Greg, feel free to speak up, you echo similar sentiment to downintexas.

This conversation, as hard as it might be, can only help. Sometimes a tie is actually a win, and for some reason, that's a hard concept for people to grasp. A loss is never a win!

Patrick said...

I think down was being sarcastic and funny, not serious.

Patrick said...

The list of clubs represented by players starting the first match of the 2010 World Cup:

Everton (EPL)
Hannover 96 (BL)
Watford (Championship)
Milan (Serie A)
Rennes (ligue 1)
Fulham (EPL)
Borussia Monchengladbach (BL)
Eintrakt Frankfurt (BL)
Everton (EPL)
Hull City (EPL)
Real Salt Lake (MLS)

Two subs: La Galaxy (MLS), Bolton (EPL)

Here is the list of clubs that took the field at T&T:

Colorado Rapids (MLS)
Newcastle United (EPL)
Pachuca (LMX)
Sporting KC (MLS)
Santos Laguna (LMX)
Portland (MLS)
Toronto (MLS)
DC United (MLS)
Borussia Dortmund (BL)
Toronto (MLS)
Hamburg (BL)

Three subs: Seattle (MLS), Sporting KC (MLS), FC Dallas (MLS)

If Charlie Davies is not in a car accident, he played for Sochaux in Ligue 1. BB would have fielded an all European lineup with 10 players in Top 5 leagues. BA fielded 6 guys from MLS, and brought 3 more MLS players on.

How that came to be in 8 years, along with Bruce Arena's malpractice, is probably the #1 reason we are eliminated.